Alliance pugs win 100% of AB and WSG.
I can make up things, too.
Well, it does require more work when half your team gives up 5 minutes in and the other half gives up when SHGY falls instead of all of the alliance only stopping their attempts to win when the game actually ends when one of the two bosses die.
It is also quite hard to win when 1/4 of your team has no interest in even attacking the horde and sti back and leach or full on afk.
Imagine how hard it would be to win an AB with 10 players while the other team has 15. Thatâs why AV is so hard for alliance. They are always outnumbered in players that are actively trying to win.
The fewest leachers/afk alliance I have seen in an AV in the last 6 months is 4 and that was durring an AV weekend.
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So horde definitely have a steep advantage at the beginning of the match but alliance is also dumb and tries to run past like its still AV premades.
News Flash: Alliance would have much better games if they fought at SH until SF was capped by the horde THEN pushed IBGY.
But Also: Horde would still win most of these games due to their blatant head start.
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Alliance should start throwing games to maximize their honor gain rate. Blizzard clearly doesnât care enough about AV, why should you?
Get that rep up and just move on.
We already do this but you canât make the horde win. They will wait for 30 minutes regardless, to make shorter losses alliance actually have to get to drek to make horde end the game.
Thatâs because horde wait 2+ hours to get in, so they maximize the rep/honor gained.
Iâve had games where horde were close to killing the final boss but a tower still had 15 seconds left before it burned.
Tank pulled the boss out to reset him to ânot riskâ losing the bonuses the burned tower would give.
Also (not directed specifically at you blade), plenty of alliance have plainly admitted to not trying to win but instead playing to maximize rep. And it baffles me as to why alliance think the map is the only contributor to that loss rate in AV.
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Well to be fair it is a lot of the reason the meta is as sorry as it is.
Itâs part of the reason thatâs definitely true, but Iâm tired of the map criers try to make it the only reason. As if the map being changed would change the efficiency of rep farming for alliance because of short que times vs longer games it would cause from alliance actually trying.
The alliance map criers downplay their own map advantages and exaggerate the hordes.
They would have you believe alliance have no good choke points, no cave Rez advantage (which is actually stronger than hordes), no ability to sneak south, no ability to push south, exc.
If the horde cave was as massive a Rez advantage as the map criers would have you believe for when IBGY is capped by alliance then horde should NEVER be able to hold SPGY because the alliance cave is much closer, it has a GY on the other side of the bridge that can turn the Rez advantage to a 30/cycle with proper positioning, and the alliance cave gives alliance easy access to the horde Rez spot if somehow horde hard cap SPGY to make an easy meat grinder from airing from above and from the entrance. Let alone the flanking options the alliance cave gives. And if you need to be on the ASGY side thereâs a trinket for that.
The map criers love to point out the spot horde are strongest in AV, while ignoring the spot alliance are strongest.
And they would have you believe the IWB choke for alliance going south is smaller than the bridge when itâs close to a 40 yard stretch of area because alliance donât have to go to IWB from the road, they can take the high ground and have a MUCH wider point of area to pass. The only time IWB is an actual choke is if alliance only use the road to try and pass it.
Lastly there is counterplay for the horde cave, Iâve explained it multiple times but they donât want to listen on how a single hunter can make horde going from cave to a soft capped IBGY can turn the horde 40 second run back time into 45 (the same time it takes alliance to get there from SHGY) or more depending on entrapment procs, AND it staggers the horde to run in in small groups instead of being one massive group, which makes a huge difference.
But no matter the advise I give them on how to win, they wonât even try it and blame the map for everything. Itâs annoying as heck when you try to help them win and every game is the same thing. 10ish alliance afk/leaching 20ish try for an initial push on IBGY 10ish split between SHGY and SFGY and after the initial failure of alliance taking IBGY they turtle at SHGY, not sending any stealth teams, not using any form of tactics, and even then claiming that a single stealth canât take an objective⌠If the player is prepared and good they can take the objectives without to much difficulty.
Thornling seed is amazing for taking an objective if your not a pet class. And if you are a pet class invis potions can get you past the brawl and able to use your pet to cap.
Heck if you use both you donât need to be a stealth or a pet class. A warrior could solo cap with the items Iâve described without killing any alliance NPC first. And being alliance with elves shadow meld helps you plan your timing with with GY Rez cycles and such if you need to.
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I donât think anyone can really ask alliance to put much effort into a game which is 80% lost from the go.
Sure thereâs a ton of things alliance can do but all of it loses to âZUG SHâ and anything that doesnât requires way more coordination than a pug is going to have.
Also, Alliance is in a position where improving the quality of our games by trying potentially lowers our honor per hour because the hordes starting advantage is so huge. Turtling could stretch the game out, rushing IBGY loses us the game, what other option does a PUG have? How coordinated do we have to be before youâll admit that the map needs to be fixed?
Horde seem to have the attitude that the map shouldnât be fixed until Alliance try to win a losing game, at their own expense, for your entertainment?
Entitled.
Oh thatâs NEVER been tried!! Thank you THANK YOU!!
In my case, I would prefer the map to be fixed, but I also prefer people make accurate statements regarding what each side is actually doing. There is an advantage. It is substantial. It should be fixed. But for as much downplaying of the map advantage gets from Horde players, it gets overplayed by players on the Alliance side.
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The head start is alright, but ultimately the two biggest issues are the cave respawn and the SFGY to Aid Station on death bug. Those two things cause a massive amount more of the map advantage than the head start even remotely covers.
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Can you cite an example of this, which leads you to this gross generalization?
Do you think the map should be fixed? Do you think the Horde should get a 30 second head start? Do you think Horde should rez at their cave behind IBGY even if they hold other GYâs while the Alliance cave is by their base?
Do you?
Serious question:
Do you actually have a flaming clue what each personâs viewpoint is that you are arguing with?
I have supported:
- Changing the cave res mechanic
- Fixing the respawn location when dying at SF
- Using Korrakâs Revenge so that the horde cave location initial benefit is nullified
In fact, youâd be hard pressed to find a horde poster who does not agree with the first 2, and even fewer players overall that disagree with the 3rd (beyond your buddy Zyrius)
I fully expect you to either ignore this post, or completely forget about it in future arguments.
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So much this.
I just donât agree with alliance blaming everything on the map. There are other factors causing at least 30-40% of that â99%â loss rate.
The very obvious core problem here is that the horde spent so much time blindly arguing against the imbalances that they donât want to admit they were wrong now. They made it a point to be very ignorant and claim its alliance just magically sucking only in av.
Now that itâs been explained and I think most of them even understand it they still wonât stop because if they do at this point it just spells out all their pride they have had from winning av is gone. This is a group that clearly doesnât understand the map and clearly doesnât play the other bgs either. If they were to admit its just the map they are pretty much admitting they are also trash tier players.
In short they want to keep pretending they win because that are better.
At first, the Alliance rankers were gone so there was a clear difference in the number of skilled players in AV on each side. Doofs like you tend to ignore that obvious fact and pretend that the teams were balanced. They werenât. They were Horde tilted at the time.
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The argument has evolved as the skill level has evened out in AV (mainly because people on both sides are leaving the BG). Some of the aspects werenât known / spelled out by alliance until much later in the discussion (the SFGY rez situation being the one that comes immediately to mind). Some aspects do require communication to understand on both sides.
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And thatâs where things get difficult. Horde side players have had to sift through an enormous number of trolls (like you) who say stuff that isnât believable. You distort how Horde approaches AV. You ignore the AFKers / leechers on your side. You pretend the lack of rankers Alliance side makes no difference. You pretend that it is only the map and that has never been true and then complain when Horde tell you it has never been only the map and distort our statements to make it sound like we want free wins.
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At this point though, I am pretty convinced that you specifically are nothing but a troll.
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Thing is, some of the players on this thread have been exceptionally informative. They are clearly very knowledgeable. They have been very helpful in advancing this discussion. But all you âit is only the mapâ people have done nothing but confuse the discussion.
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And then they complain that Blizzard ignores this thread.
And thatâs fine most alliance acknowledge that players can play a factor, the issue is horde denying that the map is the major factor and also a root cause of many of the player issues.