AV Cave Rez situation

[Elfblade-mankrik]

Its plenty obvious horde side too. I was solo capping all of DB, including the Aid Station and SPGY and maybe 1 in 3 games alliance would actually make an attempt to recap stuff. Most of the time I was just salty sitting in a bunker while my team was getting fat on 2-300 HKs.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Fayld-westfall

That’s not something I am in a position to call out. I don’t play Alliance side so things like recalls, chats, shot calling, responses, etc. I only see them from the Horde side. I don’t feel at liberty to say whether one side wants it more than the other when I haven’t experienced the other side. I know what Horde does and I try to stick to that. I know why we stay in games. I know how we respond to things Alliance are doing.

The problem is things like recalls are not apples to apples comparisons between horde and alliance and some people don’t understand that. Then they give a simplistic example of why alliance aren’t “trying hard enough” because they don’t recall.

Well in the typical game in the current meta by the time horde are in DB the game is effectively over. Pushing horde out of DB just means alliance get stuck back at SHGY again. So it’s not a game changing move.

But you get people comparing that to cases where alliance have zerged into FWK without taking any other GY’s and yeah horde recalling in that case is very effective. Which is in no way analogous to the situation they whine about alliance not recalling in.

[Fayld-westfall]

@Jeezy-incendius

You make 0 sense on this. What does blaming the que fix? You admit the map is busted but then instead of focusing on that and realizing it causes the que problem you keep dwelling on something that can literally only be changed by fixing the broken map.

I dwell on people making incorrect statements that leave out context or just flat out don’t understand how things are being played by the other team. It annoys me and I am perfectly happy to call out anyone who says stuff that is garbage.
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@Jeezy-incendius

Then you circle back to the que being the cause at every turn.

If you want the map fixed which will lower que times say that and stick with it. Quit attempting to side track everything into a pointless que discussion that wont fix anything.

You know there can be multiple reasons for losing right? As much as some of you like to think it is all map, it isn’t. This “we have no responsibility for our failures” part of the discussion gets old. When Alliance could do premades, Horde was behind the 8 ball the same way. Most games, we rolled over and let the Alliance premade win in 7 minutes. It was very difficult to get players to try to defend. When we did and we lost, the amount of complaining was epic. Absolutely epic. But our loss rates weren’t “because Alliance can premade.” Our loss rates were because we didn’t try to beat the premades. The same thing applies to Alliance now except you have no incentive to stay in a losing game due to a fast queue.
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The idea that you poor Alliance are just helpless to compete on this map is absolute garbage. You can. The chances of winning are small, but you have a choice and most games the choice is “farm rep and don’t bother trying to win.” That’s exactly the same as the Horde during premades when we “got Balinda + Lts. and waited for a loss.”
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So you can take this “we have no responsibility for losing” crap and shove it. You have responsibility. The odds aren’t favorable, but the lack of resistance Horde gets in a large portion of games is 100% an attitude. It pisses me off that Alliance are that way the same way it pissed me off that Horde were like that during the premade era. And just like there were changes made to make things more even by removing premades, there should be changes made now to make it so the map imbalance is corrected as much as possible.

[Jeezy-incendius]

Other than changing the map and fixing problems even you hordies admit exist what can they possibly do to fix que times? The answer is obviously nothing. Less than 1% of the player base actually reads this forum and they certainly aren’t going to listen to a bunch of clowns tell them they are the problem that they should start queing up again for more 99% losses.

So if you truly want shorter ques stop being a dunce and stick to the actual problems.

[Fayld-westfall]

@Jeezy-incendius

Other than changing the map and fixing problems even you hordies admit exist what can they possibly do to fix que times? The answer is obviously nothing. Less than 1% of the player base actually reads this forum and they certainly aren’t going to listen to a bunch of clowns tell them they are the problem that they should start queing up again for more 99% losses.

So if you truly want shorter ques stop being a dunce and stick to the actual problems

You think I am talking about Horde queue times? Do you even read? I am not trying to get shorter Horde queue times. It would be nice, but we have had long queues since before this was a problem. Our queues are going nowhere. They might get marginally better, but will probably never get much below an hour.
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No. I am talking about Alliance apathy due to map imbalance + short queue times. Acting like the short queues don’t play into the apathy is silly.

[Elfblade-mankrik]

@Bodicca-westfall

Absolute rubbish and we all know it.

Imagine telling a group of 5th graders they could beat the Celtics if they just wanted it badly enough. Imagine telling a sprinter the guy with the 30 second head start won because he wanted it more.

Imagine thinking that actual advantages don’t matter.

Imagine using terrible analogies and spewing them all over the place like you have a shred of wit to hold it down.

Those 5th graders would win if the celtics never left the bench or just laid down on the court which is a more accurate representation of whats going on in AV between the two teams then your laughable comparison.

When me and some snek buddies go into TP and soft cap it the horde will have a couple of people show up and get dunked on. Then 8 horde show up to eat your lunch and then eat you for lunch.

Compare that to the alliance where you cant even get one other person to recap DBN or DBS even though a dozen of them are up there doing turn ins and your pleading in chat for 4 plus minutes for help that never comes.

Last night I lost a winnable game because after we hard capped SFGY 25 alliance ran into the field of strife to chase down 5 horde which made me laugh because if it was 25 horde the alliance would just try to ride single file through them and die on their mounts.

Then we lost both SF and SHGYs to like 3-4 horde even though there was multiple call outs in chat for help and no help came. This doesnt happen horde side.

So yeah, one team wants it and one team doesnt care and it dont get any more obvious if youre playing the bg.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Jeezy-incendius

Why does capping SHGY mean horde wins while capping IBGY doesn’t equal the same for alliance?

Jeeze, I dunno, could it be related to alliance immediately peace-outing the moment SHGY is assaulted?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Brokenwind-malganis

@Jeezy-incendius

Why does capping SHGY mean horde wins while capping IBGY doesn’t equal the same for alliance?

Jeeze, I dunno, could it be related to alliance immediately peace-outing the moment SHGY is assaul ted?

Could it be because when that happens if alliance hasn’t hard capped a southern GY the game is over?

Understanding terrain and how it impacts the game is really helpful.

[Fayld-westfall]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Understanding terrain and how it impacts the game is really helpful.

Agree. That choke behind SHGY is very difficult to overcome. If you lost SHGY, you probably aren’t good enough to overcome that choke.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Jeezy-incendius

Other than changing the map and fixing problems even you hordies admit exist what can they possibly do to fix que times? The answer is obviously nothing. Less than 1% of the player base actually reads this forum and they certainly aren’t going to listen to a bunch of clowns tell them they are the problem that they should start queing up again for more 99% losses.

So if you truly want shorter ques stop being a dunce and stick to the actual problems.

Who is asking for short horde queues?

[Elfblade-mankrik]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Could it be because when that happens if alliance hasn’t hard capped a southern GY the game is over?

Really? Van just drops dead right there? News to me.

If thats where the loss begins and ends it really means it was already that way in the cave and probably when you hit queue.

[Aldrasta-azgalor]

Theres an event going on right now called Korrak’s Revenge which uses the old 1.5 map and even the npcs/landmines that were in it back in the day.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

IIRC that is not the 1.5 map

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Aldrasta-azgalor

Theres an event going on right now called Korrak’s Revenge which uses the old 1.5 map and even the npcs/landmines that were in it back in the day.

Yep, it doesn’t prevent the problems we’re seeing in classic.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

And those problems are?

[Reapers-herod]

Oof.

Can you read?

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I am speaking to Zyrius. Pipe down.

Zyrius, what “problems” are we seeing now that KR does not help?
Last I checked, you were suggesting that KR did not stop zergs, and last I checked in classic zergs are no longer a thing. Would it or would it not have an impact on the initial field of strife area, and the much bemoaned horde cave benefit?

edit: And have you already forgotten that I acknowledged the broken SFGY rez points and cave rez?

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Elfblade-mankrik

Those 5th graders would win if the celtics never left the bench or just laid down on the court which is a more accurate representation of whats going on in AV between the two teams then your laughable comparison.

You’re incredibly wrong about AV. You’re also very irritable.

[Elfblade-mankrik]

@Bodicca-westfall

You’re incredibly wrong about AV. You’re also very irritable.

It aint my fault you dont understand the concept of things like will, determination, focus and intensity in competitive team games like sports or video games. Teamwork.

See, the problem with your argument and most map arguments is that assumes all else is equal and the only thing throwing off the works is the map. That couldnt be any further from the current reality in AV. All you gotta do is observe and be honest with yourself but thats too hard for most.

Its why you can say dumb things like queue times dont matter when all of recorded WoW history, common sense and rationality disagree with you and its obviously not the case.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Elfblade-mankrik

See, the problem with your argument and most map arguments is that assumes all else is equal and the only thing throwing off the works is the map.

That’s because when all else is equal horde will win. That’s kind of what a map advantage does.

And while sure alliance will win if they RNG into a team that is at least twice as good as the the horde team. That’s not a strategy, or a matter of will, it’s simply RNG.