I am implying nothing of the sort. That’s actually one of the things I want changed so that I could imply it. That SFGY respawn order Alliance side is probably the single stupidest thing on the entire freaking map. If that was changed, then we could have a discussion around pushing SFGY consistently. It really isn’t a good option right now unless you push IBGY first, soft cap it, then pivot directly back to SFGY and hard cap it. That’s higher level tactics than a typical pug is going to accomplish though.
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That’s really what I am getting at and I admit that this is trash too given the fact that Horde have the ability to respawn at the cave. That’s the second thing I want changed (I actually have a laundry list, but those two are my focus). The problem is that the cave respawn gives Horde the ability to split forces. Without it, Horde would have to more heavily focus defend IBGY.
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I am about as far away from the “no AV changes” crowd as they come. I simply don’t like when people misconstrue how the games are played to make it sound like everything is just so simple for one side without understanding or expanding on why. Half the time the “why” isn’t even correct. I don’t think we will be getting changes, but I really want people to get on board with how the map works so that it is at least a united front from the players to ask for the changes that might get us good games.
Ignoring the queue as part of the problem gets us nowhere. The map plays a big part. The short Alliance queue plays a big part. Not sure what is so complicated about this. It has never been only the map.
The short queue does two things, it let’s people brute force rep and it let’s people play team roulette since the outcome is usually known within the first 10 minutes.
Now obviously the queue is due to the map imbalances and take out both those things mentioned above and AV would be even deader than it already is.
I will explain this. If you have a short queue (5 mins with the changes) and a 15 minute deserter debuff, you have less incentive to really push through a tough game. From an HPH / RPH standpoint, you are better off /afk out take the 15 minute debuff, and be back in a game in 20 minutes than trying to push through an hour long game. That’s not a shame thing either btw. If the goal is to maximize your opportunity for RPH / HPH, you are better off fishing for games you have a chance to win than you are sitting through a long loss. Given the min/max gamer culture we have now, this type of equation matters. So, the first thing someone looking to maximize either of these things does is take a look around and see how the BG is going. Going poorly? Time to leave. First battle went badly? Time to leave. Full turtle at SHGY? Time to leave. There was a pretty famous YouTuber that went through a long list of these Alliance side.
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By contrast, if you sit in a 2 hour queue, an hour long game isn’t really going to put you off. You have an incentive to stay because leaving just means you sit for 2 more hours before the next game. it is the ultimate “well, let’s just see where this trash game goes” mentality.
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I would get into the original HPH equation which caused the rankers to leave in January, but I don’t think it is particularly relevant anymore.
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Hope that kind of breaks it down.
I disagree if you sat in a two hour queue and then still had at best a 10-15 win ratio regardless of how well you played you just wouldn’t queue at all.
Come on now. That’s not true and we both know it. Alliance had shorter queues even when you were winning most games via premades. Horde have always had the higher percentage of players wanting into AV even when we were losing.
Actually, thinking about it further, I disagree with this too. Horde still queued in greater numbers during the premade era and we won at about a 10-15% clip then.
But horde were at least getting decent rewards in terms of honor/rep when they lost in those days. Plus the games themselves were usually short. As opposed to 45 minutes+ stuck north of SHGY.
It was more relevant in January / February and for about 3-4 months following when there were still 11+ games going at a time on a weekday. It is waaaaaay less relevant now.
The games were short, but we still had 45 minutes to an hour to wait in queue. The honor / rep wasn’t actually that great. We got more than Alliance do now simply because we killed Balinda + Lts. But even that wasn’t much. Better than Alliance for sure though.
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If I were Alliance side, I actually agree with you and I wouldn’t queue. I don’t know why they still are to be honest.
When it is literally the first objective on the way north, and literally where alliance nearly always stop and hang out, where do you imagine the alternative is? There is no way that you should be losing that battle. Period.
Then Ill say it. The horde want it more. AV horde are not super elite pvpers, they can be beat way more often than they are currently but they dont mess around. Theyre not letting a level 54 hunter solo defend an objective until the timer runs out.
You dont have to tell your horde team in chat to recap IBT, they just do it. On the alliance side, you can be begging in chat full caps lock as you repeatedly get 2v1’d in whatever bunker and a dozen alliance will run right by you so they can get back to looting corpses.
That’s not something I am in a position to call out. I don’t play Alliance side so things like recalls, chats, shot calling, responses, etc. I only see them from the Horde side. I don’t feel at liberty to say whether one side wants it more than the other when I haven’t experienced the other side. I know what Horde does and I try to stick to that. I know why we stay in games. I know how we respond to things Alliance are doing.
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I assume you pvp on the Alliance side some. You can make that kind of statement, but I don’t think I am in a position to point to you and say “see, Elfblade thinks that so I agree” when I haven’t played that side to know.
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It does kinda suck seeing a player like ScotPollard post the various things he has tried to accomplish and hearing his struggles getting people on board. But even what he describes feels a whole lot like what it was like trying to get Horde to do anything but Balinda + Lts. Losing sucks. Knowing you are likely to lose sucks. With some map changes, that attitude probably changes too. At least I would like to think so.
Imagine telling a group of 5th graders they could beat the Celtics if they just wanted it badly enough. Imagine telling a sprinter the guy with the 30 second head start won because he wanted it more.
Imagine thinking that actual advantages don’t matter.
You make 0 sense on this. What does blaming the que fix? You admit the map is busted but then instead of focusing on that and realizing it causes the que problem you keep dwelling on something that can literally only be changed by fixing the broken map.
Que times will not change as long as the map is so lop sided in the hordes favor. What you are doing is pretending to care about the imbalances and claiming you supposedly want them fixed. Then you circle back to the que being the cause at every turn.
If you want the map fixed which will lower que times say that and stick with it. Quit attempting to side track everything into a pointless que discussion that wont fix anything.