Horde donât need to stop offense to defend IBGY.
Yes they technically play defense, but they get to do it after they cap SHGY. Then use their cave rez at IBGY to recap it.
Imagine if horde couldnât send all 40 on offense like alliance⌠imagine if they had to defend IBGY before it was capped like alliance need to for SHGY.
Also ignorant. Queue times before premades were killed were 45 minutes to an hour. After premades were killed they were about 1 hour 20 minutes and steadily climbed.
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Little history lesson here. You know why they went up so fast after premades were killed? It is because most of the Alliance rankers left AV the day the changes happened. It wasnât because they magically âknew the map would be a 99% lossâ map either. No one knew that was coming. Nope. They left because the HPH would be lower with a 30 minute game than they would gain slapping pugs in WSG. Funny thing, at the time it was a roughly 80/20 win rate for Horde even without most of your best pvpers. Then the good pvpers stopped queuing too and it turned into the disaster it is today. But hey, thatâs all map right? Get outta here.
You are pretty funny. If you killed enough Horde at IBGY that 20 are rezzing simultaneously and you lost that game, your team legitimately was terrible. Good at killing things, but terrible at AV. For real, you killed 20 horde in 30 seconds but somehow lost due to the rez advantage? Sure you did. Thatâs what is misinformation about it. There is context that is needed and you conveniently ignore it. The distance from SHGY back to IBGY compared to the Cave back to IBGY is pretty comparable as well when you add in the 8 seconds of run time from the back of the cave to be able to mount and ride back to IBGY as well. But you knew that too right? Sure you did.
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You know the real reason you donât get enough reinforcements back to IBGY to win it? It is because once you die, you have to run past the group of Horde players fighting at SHGY trying to take it while a different group is defending IBGY. THAT is the cave advantage. The cave allows Horde to split forces to maintain pressure at SHGY while defending IBGY and simultaneously denying reinforcements from SHGY. There is no Alliance equivalent. But you knew that too right? Sure you did.
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See Jeezy, this is why I canât take you seriously. You donât even understand why the cave is an advantage for Horde. Keep spouting off the numbers as if that is why it needs to be changed though.
Of course 20 res waves can occur and quite frankly anything over 10 is an advantage regardless. You are pretending the only battle taking place on the map is IBGY. While alliance are trying to hold IBGY they are also defending SHGY. Itâs not 20 horde vs 20 alliance at IBGY while the rest of the map sits on their hands waiting to see who wins. There are people dying up at the SHGY battle as well as people dying at the IBGY battle. Assuming horde doesnât have SFGY which alot of the time is the case when these battles take place early on.
When this battle takes place its a pretty common thing to die as alliance and not be resurrected and you are sitting there with 5+ other people waiting on another res wave. As horde this never happens because the cave just spews them out 20 at a time and they are right there to rush IBGY and overwhelm the alliance that literally cannot reinforce at all. Meanwhile some alliance arenât even ressed and still have further to travel even after the 2nd res wave hits them.
I know you guys never encounter this problem and probably never bother to count how many ressed with you but it is a thing and its a big deal.
The measurements are to compare where people reinforce objectives from.
When alliance trade SHGY for IBGY, where do they now Rez???
When horde trying to retake IBGY and die at IBGY, where do they Rez??
What you ALL are doing is trying to use the maps graveyard system in relation to each other and measuring that, but thatâs NOT how the game does rezâs.
We are measuring who can reinforce objectives faster, while defending them, in this scenario we are saying horde because of their cave get to retake IBGY Everytime because of WHERE ALLIANCE REZ when defending it.
Why would you measure ANY OTHER point on the map then the point where alliance ACTUALLY rez when fighting to hold IBGY, that literally makes NO SENSE.
Alliance die at IBGY they now Rez at SPGY, thatâs literally HOW THE GAME WORKS.
When horde die at IBGY trying to retake it they rez AT THEIR CAVE.
Why would you dare try to measure ANYTHING BUT THAT??
SO ONCE AGAIN, WHICH IS CLOSER, SPGY TO IBGY OR HORDE CAVE TO IBGY??
Stop moving the goal posts and actually use the data correctly based off HOW THE GAME ACTUALLY IS.
Again. Not being spewed out 20 at a time.
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I will just reiterate this since the less tactically sound alliance players donât seem to grasp it.
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The Horde cave is a huge advantage because it allows Horde to split forces to simultaneously defend IBGY while pressuring SHGY. This has a twofold effect. 1. It allows Horde to keep rezzing in waves at a location that canât be cut off by the alliance. 2. It allows the Horde to harass Alliance players that die and rez at SHGY so reinforcements canât get back to IBGY in time to ultimately take it. The â20 rezzing at the caveâ isnât the advantage because if there are 20 rezzing there, you demolished 20 Horde in 30 seconds and should be able to hold IBGY easily.
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See thatâs the actual reason why the cave needs to be changed. But it isnât even the freaking location that is the problem. It is the respawn. If Horde canât respawn there, it resolves the split Horde advantage and forces Horde to defend more heavily. They donât have to move the cave to accomplish this though.
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This advantage is further exacerbated by the fact that when Alliance die trying to take SFGY they donât respawn at SHGY. Change that respawn bug and suddenly the way Alliance are supposed to win the map (hold SHGY and advance to SFGY and hold that) becomes viable.
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But all we get from you 4 people is âzerg SHGYâ or âcave rezzes 20â as if either of those are meaningful reasons why Alliance struggles on this map. The first one isnât true and the second one isnât applicable.
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So please. Reread what I just typed and start explaining it that way so that MAYBE just freaking MAYBE we can convince blizzard to make 2 changesâŚ1. fix the SFGY respawn. Thatâs a bug anyway and should be fixed. 2. alter the respawn so that cave spawn is only available when no other GY is available. While I have my doubts that Blizzard will change either, spouting off inaccurate trash arguments that Blizzard can (and likely has) debunked via simple analytics isnât getting us anywhere.
That I agree. 11 rezzers instead of 10 rezzers is however a small advantage.
Yeah Iâm not only referring to IBGY battle, I know hordes everywhere on the map can die and rez in cave. Just like alliances everywhere can die and will rez at SPGY. But it doesnât change the fact that itâs rare more than 10 hordes will die in 30 seconds at the same time on the map. I donât know on what stats your basing your theory but I invite to let me know. Passing the 10 death horde sides is very rare. And each more deaths is even rarer, let alone 20 dead hordes in 30 seconds.
No it doesnât happen. Give me any proof of that. Itâs only a belief based on the possibility it could.
Read the first line and stopped. It might not be 20 at a time every spawn but anything over 10 at a time is a big advantage. That is 10%+ more horde being thrown back into the battle at a time for every person over 10 they get. Until you want to properly acknowledge this iâm not going to bother reading your nonsense.
Yeah. 11 on 10 is a MASSIVE advantage. Get outta here. The issue is (and always has been) the fact that Horde can split forces and delay reinforcements from SHGY. It is further harmed by the fact that Alliance canât easily take SFGY due to the respawn bug sending you back instead of to SHGY.
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You can keep ignoring my comments on why the Horde cave is an advantage, but hopefully others read them and start using them as the reasons why the change needs to happen. Your garbage logic is getting us nowhere because it is easily debunked by simple analytics.
11 is the lowest possible advantage of course you cling to that lol. As i said alliance itâs not uncommon to miss a res wave because more than 10 are dead and be stuck waiting with 5+ others for the next wave. You guys would of resâd with 16 at that point and been back to mobbing people.
Well reapers, maybe show your post to someone you thrust but it still doesnât make sense, at least in my humble opinion.
Ok letâs assume alliance traded SHGY for IBGY.
Dying allies at IBGY rez at SPGY.
Dying hordes at SHGY rez at cave.
What is unequal for you ? both factions have longer to cover before coming back keeping their soft capped gy since they have to travel 2 graveyards. If you choose to bypass your gy (SHGY) being soft capped by horde, thatâs your choice. Same as if horde choose to bypass IBGY soft capped by alliance. But horde rarely does that. Itâs a choice.
I mean, obviously alliance running back from SPGY to IBGY (2 graveyards) will take longer than horde running back from cave to IBGY (1 graveyard). It makes total sense. Just as it will be longer for horde to run from cave to SHGY (2 graveyards) compared to alliance running back from SPGY to SHGY (1 graveyard (45 seconds)).
I mean I pointed out why alliance canât get passed IBGY.
You can do 100 games as horde and alliance MIGHT hard cap IBGy 3 times.
Itâs because who can out reinforce it. You may think an 11 rez isnât special, but when itâs happening every wave, while alliance rez 10 ALL the way back at SPGY, itâs pretty silly to not understand why they canât keep IBGY.
I donât have to cling to it. It is no different than any other rez advantage. If Horde are defending IBGY with 20 players and you kill 11, there are still 9 alive fighting. Horde get 1 more back earlier than we would at any other graveyard. #yawn. Your argument is a joke. Keep clinging to it though. Straight up, the cave advantage is exactly what I have described. Your lack of ability to actually argue back in spite of 3 separate posts tells me everything I need to know about your understanding of basic tactics.
They will rez at SHGY if you have the graveyard.
If they donât they will rez at SPGY.
They will rez in horde cave
You canât compare alliance dying at IBGY and horde dying at IBGY like that. Alliance is trying to hard cap a gy by giving his own SHGY, of course you have more distance to cover. Just as horde will have more distance to cover in the exact opposite scenario (Horde dying at SHGY while SHGY and IBGY are both soft capped by opposite factions).
Why do you think itâs ok for the map to cover horde doing it and not alliance.
Youâre literally showing the disparity.
Horde give up IBGY, because they KNOW they can out reinforce alliance at IBGY once they take SHGY.
This really isnât hard.
To your point as to why alliance donât retake SHGY when running by back to IBGY itâs because horde donât need to send 40 to retake IBGY, they can send 20. So those 10 ally running back are met at a massive choke with 20 horde to run by to get back to IBGY.
This truly isnt that hard to figure out WHY AV plays out the way it does âŚ
Except they donât do this? Horde intercept Alliance mid and some Horde proceed to SHGY. I have literally never played a game since February where Horde ignored an Alliance group, let them get IBGY, then came back. Not once. Bodicca supposedly has, but even he said it only happened once. So I donât understand why you keep saying this. It isnât how the games actually go.
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No response? Typical. Keep shooting off the same misinformation.
They do give it up though lol. They use the head start to try to block alliance and all in SHGY. They donât keep half their forces back there to defend it. They rely entirely on the cave respawn. If you guys had to deal with it like alliance do and you respawned at FWGY 10 at a time you might notice this. You think you are defending it simply because the res waves at the cave allow you to take it back easily. Itâs not defense though its larger closer res waves overwhelming what the alliance can send to IBGY. If we send enough to actually take IBGY then we instant lose SHGY and lose the entire game thanks to the bottleneck.
For you simpletons when you say defense, that implies people are staying behind. Which is never the case. The only âdefenseâ you run into when attacking IBGY is the current res wave. Then you softcap it and are rewarded by handing horde 20 man res waves very close to the GY.
What. Are. You. Talking. About.
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I am convinced you donât actually play AV. I have explained this. Repeatedly. Gates open. Horde rides toward the middle of the map waiting for a left or a right call. Depending on which way Alliance come in, Horde will intercept. Every. Single. Game. Without exception. It has been this way for 9+ months now. This isnât new. It isnât even in question except for the 4 of you who clearly donât know what you are talking about who keep spouting off this dribble.