AV Cave Rez situation

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

What’s closer horde cave to IBGY or alliance cave to SPGY?

Your comparing the wrong things again.

Btw, the answer is alliance cave is closer. Since you seem to be unable to compare relevant things.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Alliance have a 30 Rez vs 10 advantage when horde soft cap or hard cap SPGY if alliance bothered to try at that point in the game. And we’ll, 30 is bigger than 20.

Oh, did I mention that alliance cave is even far closer to SPGY than horde cave is to IBGY?

Yet somehow horde manage to hold SPGY till it hard caps and even go past it.

Hmmm.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

The game isn’t over when horde soft cap (or hard cap) SPGY. You giving up is your own choice.

Fact if the matter is you give up when you are at your strongest in terms of your Rez cycle, ability to sneak past the horde to go south, needing the fewest people defending to hold the horde off, and having the best choke point on the game being used.

You give up at the point alliance have the highest chance of turning the game around. Why? Efficiency. Que time vs game duration makes is more effective for HPH and repPH to give up. To lose 4 games in 2 hours instead of winning one game in 2 hours by sticking to it and playing the same match for 2+ hours to get the win.

Alliance refusing to use their own map advantages does not make them not have them.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Graff-nathrezim

@Brokenwind-malganis

Sorry, same 1.12 as was in vanilla.

The game is a MMO, massively multiplayer. If the players change then the game changes even if the code does not.

Of course, and I acknowledge that alliance are playing differently, now that they have the advantage queue-wise. A lot of alliance players are happy to proclaim that the horde are playing differently now (read: playing both offense and defense, as the BG was designed to play) when simultaneously ignoring that alliance too are playing differently due to short queues which lead to less desirability of long games (even if it is a win).

Are horde better at PVP? Of course not.
Is a player who is playing a BG as intended “better” than a player who is not playing to their potential because it is not worth the trouble (to them) to put effort in when it means a longer game? What would you call it, Graff?

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Brokenwind-malganis

Of course, and I acknowledge that alliance are playing differently, now that they have the advantage queue-wise. A lot of alliance players are happy to proclaim that the horde are playing differently now ( read: playing both offense and defense, as the BG was designed to play )

Horde aren’t playing defense. They don’t have to.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Verettana-grobbulus

Alliance onyl have an aversion to long games because if you lose SHGY and are turtling you get no bonus honor and no rep from the game.

No, I would say that it is an aversion to long games across the board. In this very thread there have been alliance looking down on wins that took long to achieve. That is solely due to the game time / queue time ratio.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Also, to the complaint about when horde take SPGY and alliance Rez at cave. There are multiple things alliance can do with this to benifit them.

1. Fall back as SPGY falls to horde so you have some people on ASGY side of bridge.
2. Use trinket to be on aid station side if it needs more people on that side.
3. Use your cave spawn to flank horde and kill their healers or even make their GY spawn at SPGY a death trap with aoe, fears, burst, exc as they spawn while your safely at the top of the hill behind them.
4. Use the cave spawns to head south to start an offensive while making sure you have enough.
5. Don’t give up because this is the strongest Rez cycle position, flanking position, defensive position, and sneaking an offensive position alliance can be in. Yes it will mean a longer game, but this is the best chance of alliance turning the game around.
6. Don’t forget to interrupt the summon of ice daddy and have someone watching for this.

Alliance give up when they are at their strongest and it’s sad.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

So constantly going back to stop alliance soft caps isn’t defending?

So meeting alliance offensive push in the first 5 minutes of the match so they can’t race to our base isn’t defending?

So having a few people watching for alliance pushes and calling them out to get people to intercept it and fall back to stop soft caps isn’t defending?

What is your definition of defending???

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

@Brokenwind-malganis

Separate the server types into their own queue pools, and it would show quite clearly the impa ct of queue times on win/loss ratios.

Or randomize the starting location and see how little impact queue times have when horde get the north starting spot.

I think you’d see the north start consistently has a 10-15% win rate regardless of faction/queue time, around what alliance get on AV weekend.

Ignoring the effect queue times have on motivation is truly bizarre.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Reapers-herod

Yes but the name of this post is even called “AV cave Rez Situation” and it was to point out the disparity in where the horde cave is.

Sorry if I am veering from the token horde player’s mandated intent of the thread. The cave location (not counting rezzing there) is only a factor in the first seconds of the BG. If a wholesale change to the map is to happen, it should be a reversion back to 1.7, with all the game mechanics that version entailed. The old map, and the mobs/NPCs at their highest strength.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Windar-doomhammer

But that doesn’t fit in with the narrative that its the players to blame!!

Very well put and to the point.

How ironic that players new “meta” is blamed by alliance, and yet they scoff at the suggestion that players are to blame.

[Elfblade-mankrik]

Yeah sure in some games the horde leave stuff under defended or even ghosted. Thats because theyre very accustomed to being able to get away with it on account of playing against inept alliance teams. Here’s the thing though - if they cant burn SHB with less than 3 people then they will put 5 or 10 or however many they need too in order to take the objective.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Which is a factor for whichever side currently controls it. Can work just as much against horde if they are in possession. Moreso with the cave positioning virtually right above the spawn point.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

But then you would have to understand 20 is a greater number than 10 and

If you are killing the enemy 20 times per your 10 deaths, that would be relevant. If the bulk of horde are north of IBGY, they are not spawning at the cave. Pretending there is a constant stream of 20 horde spawning at the cave is some disingenuous garbage.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

If horde were playing the zerg meta and not defending this thread wouldn’t exist.

Ah, I pine for the days where you were virtually the only player defending 1.12, and advising those who did not want the zerg meta to simply PVP.

[Jeromagnus-darkspear]

Well aid station seems more open to me than SHGY/SPGY/Frostwolf hut. You don’t have to pass near the flag. You could head south I think (I need to double check it).

So I wouldn’t put aid station at the same level. Aid station is more like FWGY : you are close to the flag but you still have options.

[Verettana-grobbulus]

@Elfblade-mankrik

This isnt about being worse at pvp. This is about where each teams priorities are specifically for AV. The horde is all about winning and winning big and the alliance is all about rep and repping big.

You realize if the you don’t control the middle of the map rep is nearly non existent right. Moat losses in AV net alliance less then 150 rep.

The point is even if alliance are playing for rep they don’t get any in 90% of the games anyway, because if you can’t kill lieutenants and take towers you get nothing.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Aldrasta-azgalor

Alliance is mostly winning AV on retail btw, they’re using the old 1.5 map too.

Eh wot?

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Bodicca-westfall

@Brokenwind-malganis

Of course, and I acknowledge that alliance are playing differently, now that they have the advantage queue-wise. A lot of alliance players are happy to proclaim that the horde are playing differently now ( read: playing both offense and defense, as the BG was designed to play )

Horde aren’t playing defense. They don’t have to.

How can you claim they are not playing defense, when every time it is suggested that the alliance take southern objectives, horde run back to defend those things?

I think I am done engaging with you at this point. You add nothing to this discussion.

[Fayld-westfall]

@Brokenwind-malganis

How can you claim they are not playing defense, when every time it is suggested that the alliance take southern objectives, horde run back to defend those things?

There are several players on this thread that don’t add much to the conversation due to a general lack of understanding how the other side approaches the game. The people who have it in their heads that all Horde does is zerg are the primary offenders.