Yes and no. You talk about rep farming but the few AV’s i did a few weeks ago half the games the alliance do that go 40+ minutes your lucky to get 150ish rep for the game.
Horde tend to be super toxic and will send 20 people back to stop people from killing any generals or anything even if they are at Van.
The map imbalances and the way the horde use them to strangle, break it super hard.
I would love for a single week for them to simply swap which side each faction starts on, and watch everyone cry.
Not talking about rep farming actually. I am talking about winning. If I was in a game where we had a 30%-40% chance of winning to start (that’s roughly what I think the map imbalance is) and then my side looks like it is about equal to the Horde side, I would /afk in search of a game where my side looks good enough to win. If I didn’t wait for 2 hours, there is no way I am sticking with a game that takes an hour with a 30%-40% chance at a win. I am not waiting for SHGY to be taken which reduces it to basically 0%. I am not calling shots to see if my team mates will follow directions. If that initial clash ends up in a wipe for Alliance, I am out.
Another reason why I wouldn’t still be in this game. If your team can’t take those, Horde isn’t going to give them to you.
I would love for them to do this too simply because it would be fun. It also goes along with my belief that one of the changes should be random starting locations. Neither side should start north or south every time. All that said, there should be changes to the map so that even starting north you aren’t immediately behind the 8 ball of an “I have a 40% at best chance of winning this game /afk” decision. That’s not a fun map.
Only way to remove the incentive to stop Alliance from killing / taking literally anything is to remove the bonus reputation at the end of the game. I have no opinion on this either way. If they removed the bonuses, so be it.
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At the end of the match, additional reputation is earned for the following conditions:
Enemy Captain killed (+36 reputation)
Allied Captain still alive (+125 reputation)
Enemy Towers destroyed (+24 reputation each)
Enemy Lieutenants and Commanders killed (+12 reputation each)
Good grief, playing AV as designed to be played is being called “super toxic”?
edit: and who do you imagine these puppetmasters are that are “sending” groups of horde hither and thither? Horde reacts to what alliance are doing. Full stop.
I wonder no such things. The biggest contributing factor to alliance’s lack of effort in AV is solidly due to their queue times in relation to BG length. They no longer queue for AV, because the length of the games makes it worthless to them. This is why, while I’d be fine with such a change, simply flopping start locations will do ziltch to alliance win rate. Games are simply too long compared to their queues.
Bringing in buff dispelling is a rally weird slant.
It’s not just the queue times. Its the 99% loss rate on top of getting maybe 150ish rep for a 40 minute to honor long game as horde camps everything makes sure to turtle so alliance get no benefits from staying in the AV, and stall and summon all the things they can for max rep.
The map imbalances allow these things so much more easily. If sides swapped it would likely happen the other direction and an incredibly imbalanced rate as well.
That’s laughable. I would love to see that horde team deal with losing shgy lol. You’d get choked so hard it would blow your mind. Swapping sides would massively change the win rate pull your head out of the sand
At the very least, swapping sides would end this discussion decisively. I wish Blizzard would do this for a week as a thought experiment if nothing else.
There is no lack of effort on Alliance’s part. They try rushing IBGY. They try rushing while defending SHGY. They try rushing SF while holding SH. They try rushing RH. They try the hiding tactic. They try everything. It’s only after losing SHGY that Alliance basically give up. The game is over at that point.
Of course it would. Only a complete fool can’t see the map imbalance is the reason for the loss ratio.
If the Horde cave were by the Horde base and the Alliance cave were behind SH, and if Alliance got to the bottom of IBGY the same time Horde did, and if there were a straight path up to IBGY as there currently is for SHGY, and if Alliance reached SF 20 seconds faster, and if Alliance didn’t have to defend SHGY simply due to the cave being right there - THEN ALLIANCE WOULD BE PLAYING A HORDE MAP.
It’s totally INSANE to look at this map, look at rez locations, and claim nothing would change if things were switched. It’s just downright nuts.
Bravely fabricated, as usual. Even you own faction mates have been lamenting the lack of effort/will of many (most?) of your faction playing AV. Do I really need to source quotes from this very thread where it has been repeatedly expressed that as soon as it looks to be a long game, or SHGY is assailed, alliance by and large give up?
The map imbalance that does exist in NO WAY WHATSOEVER accounts for that ridiculous W/L ratio.
As Fayld remarked, I guess we’ll have to wait for blizzard to actually implement something like that before it can be put to rest. Flopping the start locations will do nothing whatsoever to change the vast difference in queue durations, and the lackadaisical mentality of the average alliance player in AV. There is simply no will for alliance to stick around in long games, which would absolutely result from the start swap. Horde would be guaranteed to have defenders on the bridge, and with multi hour queues, would turtle like you’ve never seen.
Should cave rez only happen when no other faction GYs are held? Certainly.
Should SF res location be fixed? Certainly.
So you can save the ridiculous youtube spam.
No way to know that for sure. It could 100% be map imbalance deincentivizing a faction from playing.
The queues would likely drastically change if the win ratio became way more even. Look how popular AV was when pre-mades were a thing and when it stopped how interest and queue times in AV sky rocketed.
Win ratios make and break the viability of anything competitive.
If AB favored Alliance with a 99% win ratio you’d barely see any horde queue for it, especially if it incentivized camping the rez location really hard so they cant get anything from the battle ground.
If horde were so so much better at pvp than alliance you would also seem massive win loss ratio differences in all the other BG’s like WSG and AB but they aren’t 80-20 or higher.
That lack of effort comes AFTER the loss of SHGY. I’ve been exalted for months. I’ll be r12 next week and that grind was primarily through playing AV. I have been in hundreds of AV matches and I’ve played more AV than ANYONE I know. I’ve certainly played more than anyone in this forum. So it tends to piss me off when people come in here and have the hubris to claim they know more about how Alliance play than someone who’s actually been there. Especially when that person is a HORDE who just recently resubbed.
Fayld is another Horde who tends to think he knows what goes on in AV more than anyone else - even in matches he wasn’t a part of.
Being arrogant doesn’t make you right.
BTW, you don’t have to “wait for blizzard to actually implement something like that.” You can use objective FACTS and tools of measurement such as distance and time and location and math. That’s kinda’ what maps DO.
Our early ancestors created those tools to help accurately assess all kinds of important things. It boggles my mind that a cave man could figure this out but Horde can’t.
Or it could be a result of premades being done away with, leading to longer games, leading to less people putting in the effort (which would lead to even longer games), dragging the win rate way down, then blaming the loss rate for not trying, and then ignoring historical faction win rates, then blaming “the map”, and then blaming horde having a new toxic “meta” (playing AV as intended). My point is, it is not one thing or another, but a slippery slope of self-inflicted losses.
And again:
Should cave rez only happen when no other faction GYs are held? Certainly.
Should SF res location be fixed? Certainly.
Of course it would, but the fact of the matter is that CURRENTLY, the queue speed is (imho) the largest factor in regard to general alliance motivation, or lack thereof.
Sure, but as long as alliance queues are relatively nonexistent, a higher win rate with longer games is not in the cards for alliance. Alliance have shown that they have an aversion to long games, while queues are quick. This cannot even be debated at this point.
AB versus AV is apples and oranges.
Who are you responding to with this? Did I give you the impression that I was making the “horde are better at PVP” argument?
I am going by what your own faction mates have been posting in this and other AV threads. You know, the ones you either ignore or handwave unless they are toeing your line.
Sorry, same 1.12 as was in vanilla. Try a different argument.
And once again:
Should cave rez only happen when no other faction GYs are held? Certainly.
Should SF res location be fixed? Certainly.
PS: I played plenty of AV during vanilla as alliance.
