I would love to see blizzard swap horde to alliance side and alliance to horde side for a week to see how that effects win rates.
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ya i agree. There is a lot less bickering and people are more willing to follow the strat caller, and call out some general strats as they see it.
I think AQ and Shadowlands have scared and pulled a lot of the kids away. Just wait until 15 boss Naxx, TBC, and Shadowlands. Only the strong will remain, and AV will be in the golden age of the player base going forward.
Would be nice if they adjusted the map, but not holding my breath knowing blizzard. At least it is still somewhat fun.
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I mean yeah I hope thatâs true. Like I think shadowlands dropping will pull alot of the people that are playing classic to play a wow game away that generally dont enjoy it that much. I think that will be healthy for the overall community that actually likes the game.
There is a group of people on this thread saying that yes AV has maps imbalances. But the main reason alliance loses 99% is because they already gave up since all rankers left when Blizzard prevented alliance rankers to premade AV.
There is another group of people on this thread that are saying something else : the map imbalances are so huge they make it almost impossible for alliance to win, thus the 99% victory wins of horde.
Question to the second group : Itâs AV week-end and Alliance is doing much better than usual and won like 30% victories. How is that possible if the maps imbalances are so huge ?
Wow please do not curse me with this evil. Iâm going to exorcise my computer now for showing me these words. This âwhole team at DBâ thing does not happen in my games and Iâm going to keep it that way.
They actually canât rain anything on my anything, if I set up the DB turtle in time. With hunters spamming frost traps and flare and mages spamming blizzard on the bridge and me spam healing them, we can and in fact have held off 20 horde for 20 minutes. Could have been even longer but Drek died.
To do this I had to order my team to give up SP gy.
I guess. But it doesnât much matter to me if the DB turtle was set up in time. Again to do that I have to give up SP gy. Yes I did try defending both one game and it failed miserably. We still won but it was by the skin of our teeth and I died probably 30 times recalling and throwing myself at the horde in DB.
No I would much rather give up SP gy and set up the bridge properly.
Youâre right itâs not. Itâs arguably easier from DB to go to SH actually, since you can jump off the cliff into harpy valley.
The idea, and by the way itâs not a great one because itâs really a Hail Mary Pass, is that you load up on bridge defense and try to get a south offense. So you deliberately let the other team hard cap SPGY while you keep about 20 at the bridge, AOEing it and turtling.
While this happens you run a team of 20 offense deep south and take objectives. This can be IBGY or the Relief Hut but the problem is similar, the minute you take something south youâre going to get horde recalls and your reinforcements are very far away.
If horde are smart theyâll all give up on offense, recall, and practice âscorched earthâ where they use the cave rez to take stuff back. Then they can reset the BG and take it back. If they are not smart then theyâll allow alliance to hard cap a southern GY and itâll be a race.
So itâs a very complicated strategy that takes a ton of time. No alliance wants to do it because it involves abandoning SPGY early and turtling for a slow win. Instead many alliance would rather lose quickly and get another AV with their fast queues. Itâs simply better rewards and more sure rather than gambling on the horde team being dumb.
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I dun need 20 for the bridge turtle if I have the right comp (god I love hunters for AV please give me 10 hunters every AV), but yes that is the idea.
Alliance rankers are slowly returning to AV as word of what we are doing gets out. My groups have been running AV even on non bonus days.
Iâve said earlier in this thread that morale is everything. For every victory that we bring to the Alliance, we boost the morale in more and more Alliance players. They join our discord in droves and with more people we score cleaner quicker victories, which boosts the morale further, and so on.
Morale is everything on horde side too. Players on our team with both Ally and Horde toons report that word is getting out on Horde side, and when they see our names on the scoreboard they scurred. Those are the games where we have more crushing victories.
When we first started doing this we would always get people not listening, complaining about our strat being dumb, our raid warnings too spammy, etc. Iâve noticed a marked difference that people listen a lot better now.
So yeah itâs about Alliance overcoming imbalances by doing things that surpass anything Iâve seen on Horde side. Doesnât mean there is no imbalance. Just because someone survived cancer doesnât mean the cancer was never there.
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Interesting but it was the same story every av week-end. Alliance wins more and queues are faster for horde even before your group was performing.
So I think the question still remains : what explains that higher ratio of alliance victories every av week-ends at all time.
Ranker pre mades do AV oin AV weekend because for alliance with queue times its still good honor. As good as AB is.
The fact that the win rate doesnât spike to near 50% shows you there is a massive imbalance in the map.
Its funny cause a lot of competitive games balance characters and thing when they hit something like a 53% win rate causes thats crazy bad imbalance.
Saying 30% is acceptable is absurd. None of the other BGâs are that bad for alliance.
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There were always more alliance rankers playing AV on AV bonus weekend than on non-bonus. Thatâs why win rate is higher. This has already been discussed numerous times in this thread.
The question I thought you were asking, why win rate is even higher now (although still not close to 50%), is that there are even MORE Alliance rankers returning to AV.
Oh sure, I was going more with a pug. If you can premade then you can do a bridge turtle with far less. Then again thereâs lots you can do if you can premade.
Like I said, its all situational. The only winning play for a collection of half scrubs in a pug is to say screw SF and devote oneself to keeping SHGY while grabbing and capping IBGY. Now, if the horde throw their whole team at you to kick you out of their homeland then thats what you gotta compete with and its usually at this point where the alliance stops competing and says lets rep farm instead.
You have to hold whats yours and take whats theirs. Giving away GYs for strategic purposes like weâve talked about might be the play for a good, coordinated and willing team with the comp to make it work - otherwise your teams should be making the effort to back cap if not defending certain objectives, most notably GYs.
In a pug, when the guy running back from doing turn ins notices 2-3 horde that slipped by SHGY turtle and are about to take SPGY you should send some back to make sure it doesnât get hard capped away from your team.
The problem is they get a massive number advantage while your trying to take IBGY.
Also horde will send massive amounts of players back to defend lieutenants because they have no fear of losing IBGY. SO like even if alliance are trying to farm bonus honor from lieutenants with like 5 people horde sned 10 plus back just stop alliance from getting anything.
The alliance needs to smarten up and honestly if its turning into we dont have a foot hold by 20 minutes. Stop rezzing and force the horde to end quickly while not getting kill honor. It will force games to be worth it again for the alliance and you might actually get oK queue times for t he horde.
Like as of right now. Iâm basically gaurenteed 3x the honor and hour in AB even facing mostly pre-mades cause most of them donât 5 cap. Even if they do its like a 6 minute loss.
Most AVâs cause the horde turtle super hard and try to farm players are an hour.
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Its the same at every GY. The team spawning at the GY has the edge over the team that has to run in.
You have to out pvp them at multiple points, thereâs no way around it.
While youre pushing down the sideline to get to IB from SH theyre running towards it. You have to beat them in the field and then push them back to IBGY and keep the pressure on them until you cap it.
Thats right, you have to stop running, dismount and kill them better than they kill you. Then you fight them a little further down and beat them again and then you gotta defeat them again at the GY.
This involves things like good team pvp: buffs, enough heals, good cc and dps, getting steath behind the lines to rattle their casters, etc. Waiting for rezzers and grouping up before trying to push and so on.
The horde are savage in AV.
The problem is Horde with their cave get a 2:1 rez advantage or better at IBGY and it takes alliance longer to run down there.
Thats exactly the problem with AV for alliance, if they literally swapped horde and alliance sides in AV you would see the win ratio plummet for horde. Horde arenât magically 99% better at AV than alliance or even 70%.
Have won most of my AVs this weekend, but had a funny loss earlier due to horde sloppiness.
Horde has gotten a little too used to how easy it is to win, and we left nobody to defend the bunkers as we rolled up to Aid. Alliance started at IB GY about 5 minutes after we were at SP GY and yet we lost because alliance backcapped IWB/SHB.
By nobody, I mean it was really just me defending a bunker alone, while the other was unguarded. Tried saying in the chat, but people are all âjust rush to Vann EZâ modeâŚ
Alliance played smart, sent a group of 3-5 to take back SH GY/SHB/IWB and then recall bombed our offense as it was trying to deal with 6 marshals. That made enough of a difference that we lost.
Still, we really do have to fumble away a big lead to lose on this version of the map. Clear as itâs ever been.
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And when horde soft/hard cap SPGY alliance can have a 3:1 Rez advantage with positioning being done properly because horde will have a 10 Rez cycle (SPGY or SHGY depending on if SPGY is hard or soft capped) while alliance have a 30 Rez cycle (10 from ASGY, 20 from cave) that they can use depending on where they die (melee defending can attack from cave to pick off healers or horde rezers or even sneak past to go south. Alliance that Rez at ASGY can also have easy access to going south if they so chose. And after SPGY is hard capped by horde there is almost always no more than 5 horde at the IWB âchokeâ (40 yards of open space isnât really a choke, but still), and are easy to pass.
Both sides have a massive Rez cycle advantage at one point in the map, the problem is when alliance get pushed to their Rez advantage, they have already given up more often than not (I hope you change this though, makes for much more fun games even if they result in a loss for me)
Point being both sides have a point in the map they have a massive Rez cycle advantage.
Itâs about 50/50 for those, honestly.