In AV it is more efficient rep/honor to play 4 30 minute loss games than to play one 2+ hour game for a good chance of winning.
If both horde and alliance are trying to win throughout the entire match and both teams are relatively even in gear/skill/coordination it will be a long game. Because the efficiency of losing 4 games outweighs the benifit of one win (which alliance do have a good chance to win regardless of map, if they are actually trying to win)
The math shows your short que times hurt your win chance because of efficiency in rep/honor farm. While horde have a 2+ hour wait to get into AV, which means for horde to have the same issue we would need to see most games lasting 8+ hours if both teams are trying to make 4 losses better than 1 win for horde rep/honor farm. The reason for this is the que times, assuming they are 2 hour que thatâs 2 hours per game and quick 4 losses would give more rep/honor than the 8+ hour game.
This is why que times are impactful. And one of the downsides of short ques.
Another downside of short que times is people are less motivated to try. Would you be more willing to afk/leach an AV game (and get residual rep/honor from just being there as you watch youtube or something) if you had a 5 minute wait to get in or a 2 hour wait? If you have the longer wait you are more likely to try to maximize your time in there vs just existing there to let others hand you some of the free rep/honor.
The instant que times effect your afk/leach percentage and your willingness to play longer games. Thatâs why they are impactful.
I think you are under the mistaken believe that alliance players in AV are going for HPH reasons. They arenât. They are there for rep. I am sure there are a couple of stragglers. But if you are winning, the rep is higher so of course they stuck it out for the 1 hour game. Outside of AV weekends or a dedicated team like yours actually showing leadership and pushing for wins, alliance typically /afk right about the time SHGY is lost because thatâs right about the time when max RPH is done.
As for this, I would be far more willing to buy your point if Alliance werenât doing the exact same thing before the premades were killed. Anytime it was pug on pug, SHGY gone so were Alliance. Anytime it was pug on premade and the premade sucked, SHGY gone so were Alliance. And that was well before âwe know we lose when SHGY is goneâ was a thing. That was well before this 99% loss rate became a thing that is well known and talked about. Straight up, it is the mentality of the faction with the 5 minute queue (since Bodicca seems to think a 5 minute queue is a factor in the /afk meta).
I keep saying it because it is 100% true. It was true for Horde 15 years ago and it is true now. The faction with the short queue will always /afk at the first sign of trouble. I am not linking this to tell you how to win AV. I am linking this because the instructions about when to /afk are very much perinate to either faction with the short queue time if the goal is to get the highest RPH (which it is for Alliance side). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDuSyY7MrY
See previous point. Yes, that is part of it. It definitely isnât the majority of it. If you had 30 minute queues, the tendency to /afk at the first sign of trouble wouldnât be there because it doesnât pay off to do so.
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Edit: And absolutely none of that giant wall of response is in any way intended to say we shouldnât change the map. Off peak 3 games is stupidly bad, but the way the BG is going right now that was pretty obviously going to be the eventual result of the neglect and available gear from P5. Honestly, I am quite unhappy about the state of AV right now. I am quite unhappy about the way it has been left to freaking rot. Especially since it literally would take very minor changes to potentially draw the players back to it with closer to even games.
Agreed. But if you had a 30 minute queue and the game is likely to take 30 minutes anyway, there would be far greater determination to take additional objectives. In March / April there would have been absolutely zero chance Horde would have allowed objectives and there would have been a 100% chance Horde takes the time to summon Ice Dad. Now? Nah. Horde might pretend we are playing scorched earth but the overall number of skilled players in there has dropped so dramatically that the reality of doing so is gone if Alliance players decide they want some southern objectives. But because Alliance have 5 minute queues, there is no reason to bother pushing those objectives.
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And to be clear, I am not saying you should do any of that. If I was playing Alliance and we lost SHGY and my only freaking goal was RPH, you bet I would /afk. Thatâs not some judgment thing from me. Alliance players should /afk to get through the debuff ASAP rather than bother waiting for the game to play out.
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My entire point is that the 5 minute queue puts Alliance in a situation where it flat out isnât worth it to keep fighting past a certain point. It is completely understandable too. In fact, they should be doing that to maximize RPH. But thatâs not due to a lack of motivation. Thatâs straight up due to playing the game smart and maximizing your time. And that is due to the shorter queue.
It would only be worth it if you could win from that point but as we all know once our first graveyard is gone thereâs no point we will no longer win.
On the flip side if horde lose their first graveyard itâs in their best interest to keep going because they donât get set as far back as we do because their cave is right there literally next to their graveyard.
now if Alliance lost their first graveyard in our cave was the exact same position then we wouldnât be giving up but we all know what happens when we lose our first graveyard.
If alliance were getting all LTâs killed and two towers burned and then a loss it wouldnât be an issue. But weâre not, weâre getting game that last 45+ minutes with no bonus honor/rep and are just painful to play.
Not arguing that at all. Not even saying you have a great shot at winning once that happens. All I am saying is that with a longer queue, you have a higher amount of reason to try to take additional objectives because the longer the queue, the more benefit you get from taking the additional objectives rather than leaving and restarting.
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Again, I am not suggesting you all would have a super chance at winning if not for those pesky /afk. Nah. Months ago when you had better players in there maybe, but not now. Now the whole thing is a dumpster fire. At this point, motivation has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is straight up economizing your time and your time is better spent taking the deserter debuff and starting again.
I am saying that you could pretty easily pull all that off now with people not /afking out. The horde in the BG arenât good and havenât been for a while. But honestly, why would you bother going 45+ for something like that with 5 minute queues? Basically I would play for 10-15 minutes, /afk, get into a game in 20. Thatâs the smart play.
You mean other than the vast amounts of data, analysis and facts that no one has been able to counter and you have never produced a single valid piece of counter argument?
Just thinking about it not saying you disagree or anything look at it from a pure math perspective.
If Alliance control 50% of the map and horde control 50% of the map.
If we lose SHGY look how much of the map we lost in comparison to the horde.
SHGY gets taken alliance lose 45% of their total portion of the 50% of the total map they controlled, they go to around owning 5% of the map losing their first graveyard.
On the flip side if horde lose their first graveyard, they only lose about 5% of their position from cave to IBGY.
Horde lose ibgy they still control 45% of the map and alliance control 55% at that point.
Alliance lose SHGY they lose 45% of what they started with and horde now control 95% of the entire map.
Disagree. The players who were able to do that arenât playing anymore. You have 30ish zug zuggers who wonât drop back at all under any circumstances. Alliance can get a force south to kill off the 10 holding stuff. It straight up isnât worth the effort to do so though.
Agree with you. SHGY really puts you in a very tight spot and it is likely a 95% chance you lose when it is gone simply due to crap placement of back up GY + effective choke getting back to SHGY.
And given the zug zug nature of the current player base, just avoid fighting them until they zug their happy way to the Aid Station then ride on by and get the objectives. The only question is whether you get the objectives before they kill Vann. It isnât whether you can get by because they really do zug. The denial that was once thereâŚit isnât there now.