hmm a 60 retail character that never played vanilla…
making up false stats and clearly never actually played AV…
have fun troll.
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you mean that guy who is behind a horde choke… that 20 alliance who have no way of rezzing south can get there?
Is this guy still making up numbers??
Horde cave to IBGY is 28 sec. Alliance cave to SHGY is 57 sec.
Jeromagnus HAS to be a troll. But I commend you for your patience.
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And yet if they are trying to summon ice daddy they likely took those who were on defense away from IWB (which isn’t nearly as strong of a choke as you make it out to be) to help summon.
Start having a hunter use eagle eye and funnel I fo into your team, it helps. Information gathering and proper use of that information wins wars, and wouldn’t you know it, AV is. A small war scale PvP BG. Who woulda thought!
But he timed it! Of course we should believe his unsupported numbers over this video that provides proof.
Since Blizzard is ignoring our feedback on the forums, I’ve started sending feedback in game. It will get ignored as well, I’m sure, but they’re doing classic an injustice with this map.
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Ever consider they ignore your feedback because they can see how many people are afk/leaching per game and they see that as the primary reason alliance lose?
Hmmm…
My groups have been running AV again. Won both games we played tonight. Was only 6 games going at a time, so I can only imagine how long Horde waited for that queue just to lose. Also imagining that battleground chat Horde side is so sweet.
Oh and yeah we couldn’t even get a spot to open in the BG for our individual queuers waiting to get into our games. Because guess what map apologists, when Alliance realizes they can win, NO ONE AFKs. It’s like they don’t even understand the concept of hope and how that directly translates to motivation.
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This is why you’re bad at PvP at your opinion doesn’t matter.
For 1 meeting at SHGY is a MASSIVE disadvantage. Say we meet in the middle of FOS is where the actual middle of the map is, we would fight 1 time there, then be at IBGY. Wipe the enemy team 1 time to cap a graveyard.
Instead we meet at SHGY, so you wipe us 1 time and SHGY is gone.
Now the reverse to that is alliance wiping you at SHGY, we now have to get full Mana and health, then have people rez, then push to field, instead of what you can do by just capping the flag, we now have to fight you all OVER AGAIN in FOS, then beat you again and send you back to IBGY, then we need to mana and health up again then push to IBGY and fight and beat you again to cap it. That means we literally need to WIPE you 3 times to get the same flag you guys get in wiping us 1 time. But let me guess, that seems fair to you?
Meanwhile since the fight starts at SHGY, if we lose that fight, you free cap the ONLY graveyard we have in the middle of the map. We now get sent to SPGY.
Your 2nd point is also false, look at the video that was linked here. It actually times everything. And it’s about 28 seconds from cave to IBGY and 50 seconds from SPGY to SHGY.
This actually means A LOT in terms of reinforcements. So once again you provided no proof, you just dismiss everything. Fact is these things add up.
This was all pointed out on this thread, you keep ignoring it as if it’s not relevant data. It is.
Your 3rd point is also flawed because Alliance NEED IBGY to start going south, do horde skip SHGY??? OFC not, it’s their first attack point because you leap frog graveyards.
Issue for Alliance is, the cave is there, we will always trade SHGY for IBGY, you can’t defend SHGY vs 40 horde and take a base. It doesn’t matter if horde defend IBGY because they have a graveyard SQUARE in the middle of the map that can’t ever be taken,their cave.
Why do you think horde don’t defend IBGY at the start,yet alliance HAVE to defend SHGY?? Because if you lose ibgy it simply doesnt matter, the cave is there to Rez you in basically the SAME spot as IBGY, except now at DOUBLE the amount. Think of it like this, horde lose IBGY imagine if now they for sent to RH by drek, instead of their cave, that’s literally what happens if alliance lose SHGY, we get sent THAT FAR AWAY.
These are all things you cant dispute, it’s how the game is. Yes we have a cave but alliance cave isn’t helpful, it doesn’t enter the game till the games over. Your cave enters the game IMMEDIATELY.
This is why I said you have 0 PvP experience, you can’t comprehend how something can lead to a massive disadvantage for the other faction.
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Judging my avatar and saying “false” doesn’t give you right. I gave you clear facts and you can’t give anything concrete in return. I wonder who is the real troll. Now I know you can’t argue.
Scroll 2 posts down from the one you just responded to.
PROOF HAS BEEN IN YOUR FACE THIS ENTIRE TIME.
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Yeah I was reading that stuff. Now Drinknblink, hope insulting me “you’re bad at pvp” makes you feel good cause It won’t make you right. People are making this stuff up when they can’t win an argument you know… Even if I “was bad at pvp” I can still time stuff that apparently you guys didn’t do.
I watched Bodicca’s video who is supposed to give me wrong. Bodicca who is so mature she manifestly ignored me cause she can’t accept to be wrong. Alright, I’ll keep proving she’s wrong.
- The video only represents the time from the gate of each caves at start. Not inside the cave. I never contested horde had an advantage at start, quite the contrary. My point is it doesn’t give a strategic advantage to horde:
A. Alliance and Horde meet at SHGY on purpose cause alliance wait there. The real meeting point is somewhere down the road after or close to Balinda;
B. The only advantage it gives is it makes shorter to horde to eventually taking SHGY. If horde stack is stronger. If ally stack is stronger it will take longer to get IBGY. That I agree. It’s an advantage to horde, yes. But it’s not a massive advantage. It’s not a strategic advantage. It’s a quality of life advantage.
- Now the video only shows the time from the caves’ GATEs. Not from the caves’ rezzing points. As soon as game starts, if horde takes SHGY, alliance rez at SPGY : 47 seconds to run back. Go time it, video is not showing that. If alliance gets IBGY : takes 40 seconds to run back for Horde from INSIDE the cave. You have to add 12 seconds or so of running, which the video doesn’t shows. I hope you guys can understand when horde rez in the cave it’s not at gate, hordes have to run OUTSIDE which makes running back time to each respective graveyards almost the same. So my second point remains entirely true.
So no the video posted doesn’t time everything. All it shows is horde has a one time advantage at start when both factions start in cave, an advantage i just analyzed and easy to overcome if ally stack is the better stack. After the first death it doesn’t apply anymore.
- My point concerning rez cycle of 20 in cave was referring to the situation each factions took one graveyard (SHGY and IBGY) and their deads rez behind to take the other graveyards back so it’s not flawed.
However I admit alliance needs to take IBGY to go further south but I don’t remember I said alliance didn’t. In fact, I don’t remember we discussed that point at all. So let’s take for the sake of the conversation that the ally stack is the strongest stack. They pushed back horde which took longer cause of start point disadvantage (the only one so far). I don’t think I ever saw that situation except when alliance had a partial premade from Sulfuras.
Now you have 40 Hordes rezzing from cave to IBGY. It still takes 40 seconds for hordes to run back (not 28 seconds contrary to what is suggesting in the video) . Yes, Horde benefits from a 20 rez cycle instead of the Alliance 10 rez cycle from SHGY or SFGY. I already admitted that too. Now my point was : what does it change ? And my answer was : not much. My example was : how many time is the rez cycle cap applying at all ? From my experience, barely ever. It’s rare you kill more than 10 players in 30 seconds, especially if the opposite team has healers. Just take SFGY vs SHGY or IBGY vs SHGY when alliance is defending SHGY 40 vs 40. Rez cycle limitation doesn’t apply much to either side. Maybe when you’re rezzing at 5 seconds from your flag and the opposite faction is going to wipe you soon. But again, horde has 40 seconds run back from cave so it doesn’t apply much. I’m still waiting someone to at least tell me : “no it applies it’s a real disadvantage, we took IBGY, we were killing 20 hordes per 30 seconds but they kept coming so we lost IBGY”. No one told me that yet. Why ? Because obviously it doesn’t seem to happen.
So contrary to what you’re saying I don’t have 0 pvp experience (lol), quite the contrary but I do have zero experience in videos so I didn’t shoot my timing. But feel free to try and you’ll see by yourself. Don’t tell me “you’re wrong”. Tell me “I timed it and you’re wrong”. Maybe I’ll make the video then hehe.
Edit : grammar
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The simple have a way of incessantly over-complicating everything - the simple always mistake the elegant complexities for unnecessary complications so their responses and solutions to multifaceted nuanced challenges are always quaint over-simplifications.
“Its the map!!”
lol
It’s almost seems that if the alliance don’t give up, their chances of winning goes up drastically. But clearly it’s just the map holding them back according to the map criers lol.
Glad you saw some wins, and last I checked ques were at 2hr 44 min average wait times for horde (haven’t played AV for two days though).
Keep it up, as I prefer the AV games that alliance actually fight back in. It’s much more fun.
Insults is the only arguing point he has.
I don’t actually think this helps your point if your point is somehow that the map is causing the AFKs.
.
The map needs adjustments, but pretending that “it is the losing that is demotivating” is pretty hilarious. It is part of it. The other part is instant queues. If you had 30 to 40 minute queues like Horde did against premades, you wouldn’t AFK out. Unfortunately, what would actually happen is that you would just try harder to get a few of the objectives and then let the Horde win. That’s not good either btw. I am just saying the “afk due to motivation” is a half answer that doesn’t tell the whole story.
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But it’s not hilarious.
In any win/loss scenario if one side has an inherent advantage the other side will choose not to play. Unless there are other factors. AV rep rewards for example.
If one hoop on a basketball court was twice as wide who would choose that as their side defend? If one soccer goal was twice as big, who would choose that as their goal to defend? If one team in football started at the 25 yard line and the other at the 75 yard line, who would choose to start at 75 yards?
Oh right… in sports we switch sides…
You and I agree that the map is “part of it” the only disagreement is how big a part. I have experienced that it was a very big part.
The group or groups I do AV with are all rankers and believe me we all sweaty AF, I’m talking leading the pushes with sapper charges and going to ZG island to get Zanzas before queuing. A group like that would mow down any other group in any other BG, yet it still is an uphill battle for us. And yes this is with the whole alliance team awake and participating (because we do a quick debriefing before gate opens so people know this isn’t your typical AV). Often takes 2 or more wiped pushes before we can take SF/IB and constant backcapping of northern objectives by a party of full AQ40/rank 13-14 geared players.
Be honest with yourself and ask if Horde has to do any of that to win, in most games.
Of course losing is demotivating, that is why when the alliance team is not losing under the leadership of groups I run with, they’re lo and behold motivated. You say map is not everything, well HPH is not everything either. Case in point, last night it took us 12 minutes to get a joint queue to pop for our two groups, and over an hour to win (AV-3). Honor per hour was crap because I got like 4k bonus honor and maybe another 1.5k from HKs. But everybody was pumped the whole time. Nobody AFK. People stuck with the 1hr+ game while getting crap HPH, because those few Horde who are not AFK after about the halfway point (the rest are because they’re demotivated by losing! Who knew!) are worth 0 honor by that point. Literally no one said anything remotely along the lines of “let them win we have instant queues”. Hardly anyone even bothered with turnins because they’re too busy all down south killing Horde—who are worth 0 honor. Lol.
People like winning. People don’t like losing. I can’t believe after a thread with 3.5k replies there are people who still don’t get that.
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What Camenae said. I would presume that there are many loyal long term subscribers that would like to enjoy AV as part of their Wow Classic experience but definitely can not with the current issue.
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Issues.
It’s not just the map causing that loss rate.
People keep saying this like it’s true. It’s NOT.
If I queue for all three BG’s my WSG and AB are likely to pop before AV.
AB and WSG queues are faster these days, yet the matches are pretty even as far as win/loss ratio.
The idea that people don’t want to win AV because their queue is fast doesn’t even make any damn sense. Queues are just as fast for other BG’s and Alliance actually WINS matches there.
It’s not even worth going to AV - for any reason. Queues aren’t just getting longer for Horde, they’re getting longer for Alliance as well.
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