AV Cave Rez situation

How is it the situation we have now? Right now we have pugs vs pugs.

Because the discrepancy in ally premades vs horde pugs is similar to the discrepancy in horde pugs vs ally pugs.

This also reminds me of how a ton of alliance boycotted av when premades were banned. Another reason the best alliance players don’t join av.

A horde pug wants to win and believes they can win. So they try harder.

An alliance pug believes they are going to lose no matter what they do. The try hards have all moved on to premades in AB and WSG. Those who remain in AV are the defeated and weakest of alliance.

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Except it’s not is it.

Yes it is. And jetfuel just mentioned part of why. The alliance tryhards join ab/wsg and not av. The horde tryhards still join av.

Most alliance who join av are there, because they need rep for av rewards. Which means that even not counting skill, they are going to on average be less geared than their horde counterparts.

But I’m sure I’ll be bashed for suggesting something else obvious, so whatever

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So basically the skilled alliance are the ones competent enough to realize the issues with AV and not bother with it? Weird… how that works out.

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Yep, in addition to the long queues. Horde aren’t waiting for hours only to give up if alliance takes IB, and go kill Bal while throwing the game. I’ve had AV pop after several hours due to queuing for ab/wsg while in the av queue. I’m not pissing away a 7 hour queue and going for consolation rep and honor.

And if you think alliance aren’t also going for the max honor/rep they can you are sadly mistaken.

Wow, are you changing your tune and agreeing with me that the alliance players who join are less competent, after giving me grief for saying the same thing?



They only go there for max rep, not honor. If they wanted max honor, they’d be in WSG or something

Max honor/rank for alliance is fast losses with killing galv/LTs for as much bonus honor as possible. Something I already explained earlier, and another reason why alliance don’t try as hard to win.

I think a lightbulb is appearing over your head, but you are just ignoring it

I saying your wrong and that your argument is also inherently flawed. As either the map gives massive advantages to horde which is why they win regardless of quality of alliance, or the good alliance have simply stopped queuing into a map they have little chance of winning.

Either way the root cause is the map.

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It’s funny as you say this, I just lost an AV game. During AV weekend no less and where the alliance are actually somewhat geared and ranked.

So yes, it really is the player base of the alliance

Let me know over 20-30 games if you get a 50%ish loss rate :slight_smile:

And I acknowledged that the map has issues. What I’m saying is the queue is the bigger problem. If horde had instant queues, they would still be racing alliance and willing to lose a fast game over winning an hour long game.

The meta early on in classic, and also in vanilla, didn’t have the problems that are currently happening. Because vanilla wow didn’t have one faction with a 2 hour queue.

Even if the alliance do win, it is generally over an hour long game, because horde no longer follow the fast game race meta. So even if alliance won 50% of games, which they don’t, the best alliance players would still get more honor from wsg/ab. Alliance wins a little more on av weekend, because bonus honor and concerted efforts turning bring some of those sweaty pvpers back into av

And if horde stopped playing scorched earth their queue time would go down and we would see similar queue times to what it was at AV launch.

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Well I wouldnt since the caliber of the Alliance players in AV isnt equal to the Horde’s

It’s an experiment; why would alliance win more during AV weekends? Because there’s actually an incentive to play and win!

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Once again let me know if your win ratio over 20-30 games is 50%.

I’m queueing for AV now, so i’ll use my sample size of 1 as a counter to your sample size of 1 game.

Kind of a paradox. Horde started that meta due to longer queues. And that meta makes alliance want to play even less, further lengthening the queues.


But that assumes the alliance are equal to the horde in terms of skill. Over 100 games, I’ll never be close to 50-50 Lebron in basketball.

Same thing with Alliance. The Alliance that are skilled queue WSG and AB. The rejects/noobs/rep farmers/pvers queue AV

Not necessarily.

It could be because the larger faction (Alliance) queues for BGs less, and prioritizes BGs less, than Horde. And that the quality of the players in PuG AVs is higher.

As, ranking Horde PuGs queue AV. Do ranking Alliance PuGs?

I’m not saying this is the case, because I don’t know. I don’t have data. I have some personal experience, but I haven’t been recording it. However, if Alliance is mostly leveling players, while Horde is mostly ranking level 60s, that in and of itself could explain why Alliance loose more often.

There is no data that points to, “Alliance is losing because of the map,” imo. However, that isn’t an opinion I care about. I’d love to have it changed by better understanding anything. Is there some data I can look at? Is there some method I can use to verify some claim?

Please, feel free to share any of that with me.