It is if people aren’t trying to back cap SHB or push an offensive. When Alliance try to back cap or push SF or IBGY, our forces are split. Horde don’t have to worry about a soft cap on any southern GY so they can go all out offensive. Alliance don’t have that luxury. But the times we’ve been all out D at SHGY, what Drinknblink says is absolutely true.
Now if our cave were behind IWB like your cave is behind TP, we could also go all out offensive on towers and IBGY and it wouldn’t make much difference if SHGY were soft capped. Just like it doesn’t make any difference to you now if IBGY is soft capped.
It’s idiotic for anyone to even continue the stupid argument about why Alliance are losing over 95% of AV’s. The indisputable facts are right there. People who claim the losses aren’t directly and explicitly due to the map are hopelessly dumb or trolling.
Don’t make up some argument that I am not making and then refute it with whatever “logic” you want. The times you have been flat out D with enough players that are actively defending at SHGY are few and far between. That’s the part that is ridiculous. It doesn’t matter that you can force Horde to get Ice Dad. It matters whether you actually do. In 90% of the non AV weekend games I have been in since premades were killed, Alliance didn’t do this.
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I am also making literally zero points about IBGY. I am making zero points about alliance losing 95% of AV. I made precisely one point that you are responding to. And even that point you ignored in an effort to downplay how much the Alliance don’t actually try on non AV weekends. I made one point. The alliance have not forced horde to use Ice Dad to take SHGY in anywhere close to 80% of the games I have played since February.
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So rather than going off on your own tangent, care to actually refute my statement? As a refresher, that statement is this: the alliance have not forced horde to use ice dad to take SHGY at anywhere close to an 80% clip since February.
But they did quite a few when druids were held. Don’t care if you don’t like it or disagree with it or whatever your problem is. And since our queue time is 1/10 of what yours is, we play at least X6 - X10 games as you do. We’ve been there many more times than you have. MANY more.
Our anecdotal evidence carries weight while yours does not. You need to be quiet.
And I responded and made other points, which I can do. It isn’t all about you.
When your queue times are down to 6 minutes or so and you can play AV more than once an hour+, then come back and trot out your anecdotal evidence. Right now it means nothing.
We’re telling you that’s how it was. No one cares what someone who gets in there 1/10th of the time says.
Your anecdotal evidence literally carries no more weight than mine. I have played AV in literally every era within Classic. If your “experience” with alliance playing AV was accurate, I would have seen more games where we were forced to summon ice dad to take SHGY. There is a massive difference between the number of games you are say you have held SHGY long enough for Horde to require ice dad and the number of games where this has actually happened on any of my toons that have been in AV.
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Furthermore, Alliance being able to hold SHGY until Horde summons ice dad means you are playing at least an hour long game since Horde are poor enough to require ice dad to break the stalemate. If this was happening in 80% of games, that fact alone lowers the number of games you are playing compared to the number of games I have played quite significantly.
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Fact is, most of my games post February have been in the 30-40 minute range. Most of my games post February have been the same old “horde runs waves at SHGY until it falls” games that get described over and over and over again on this forum. Every now and then I take a loss. Every now and then alliance actually hold SHGY long enough to require ice dad to break the stalemate. That’s the vast minority of my games.
Yep, this is exactly why I keep saying that AV is wedged and needs Blizzard intervention (or a huge revolution in the player base) to get unwedged. Individuals can only change their own play and, generally, will optimize it based on that. Even small groups can only make small, temporary changes like affect the outcome of a single game. It will take a very large, coordinated effort to swing this ship in a different direction and the group that is in position to do that is Blizzard.
But they’re focused on maximizing profits and minimizing costs so they don’t lift a finger.
It was a lot tougher to push through the defenses when people weren’t totally burned-out. Now that it’s obvious that nothing is going to be done and it’s just loss after loss people just don’t care any more. The only people left in AV are the ones who came back to see if it’s still bad, the truly insane that stick with a terrible BG, and the farmers who watch videos while they barely do anything.
Back when people still cared I saw most SH defenses hold until the Ice Lord was summoned or the horde team managed to sneak in and take a northern GY.
Of course it does. I’ve been there 10X more than you have. When druids were held, Alliance kept SHGY until ice guy was summoned. If someone says they’ve done something 10 times compared to someone who’s done it once, which account carries more weight? That’s right. Even horde can do math.
We’re not talking about currently. We’re talking about when druids were held.
You’re inexperienced. That doesn’t make me a liar it just makes you unqualified to claim you know more about how Alliance played AV than those that played 10X more than you did.
Your teeny sample compared with multitudes are meaningless.
I am not saying it didn’t happen. I am saying it wasn’t any 80% of games where it did happen. It definitely was nowhere near 80% in late January / early February when people weren’t burnt out. It isn’t even 80% now on AV weekend when people are also trying. It isn’t like I am saying my experience is some all encompassing truth either here. But if it was really 80%, even getting lucky and dodging these games, I would expect to see at least 30-40% of games where ice dad was forced into play to break SHGY. My actual experience has 30% of games on AV weekend where this is true. My actual experience has nowhere near 30% of games on non AV weekend where this is true. And that is going back to right after the premade players left.
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Perhaps the confusion here is that horde used to always summon ice dad. Literally every game. But it was very rare that we summoned ice dad while we struggled to take SHGY. It still only happens in roughly 1 out of 3 games during AV weekend now.
And I’m saying you have no way of knowing that. You didn’t play 80% of AV matches. You didn’t even play 10%. Back when druids were held it was the norm, not the exception, to hold SHGY until Lok was summoned.
Along with others who’ve said the same thing. It’s an assumption based on hubris. So again, pretty meaningless.
I played AV every day for hours until I became exalted. I won four. I didn’t keep track of my games, but I can say without a doubtbecause of the queue times, when druids were held, I played a lot more than any Horde. Or are you going to try to claim that during that time you played AV over 8 hours a day with a queue time of -20 minutes?
I don’t need to play in 80% of games to know that if it happened in 80% of games that I would experience the same thing in my games that you are experiencing in your games at a roughly 80% clip. That is simple math. Even with a smaller sample size, I would see Horde needing to bring out ice dad a whole lot more than I did. That’s simple math.
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Even saying something like “we held it 40%-50% of the time” would at least give me some reason to think maybe I just got lucky. But 80%? There is literally no way I got so lucky that I almost never saw this happening on non AV weekends. Absolutely not possible. And that is even if I pretend that you somehow have 10x as many AV games under your belt than I have (which you don’t). Statistically, if I get into 10 games a week for 4 weeks, that’s 40 games. If your mystical 80% stat was correct, I would expect to have needed to summon ice dad in 32 of them. Let’s even say I got kind of lucky and somehow only hit 60% of games like that. I would still have seen 24 games where we needed to summon ice dad to break SHGY. Let’s say I got so lucky that my extreme numbers from earlier posts were accurate and I somehow dodged enough to see this happen in 30% of games on non-AV weekends. That’s still 12 out of 40 games. The statistical probability of me only having 12 out of 40 games like this when you have 32 out of 40 games like this is exceptionally small. So again, something’s gotta give. My experience is waaaaaaay closer to the 12 out of 40 games than the 32 out of 40 games.
Eh, there’s no percentage in calling people liars. Either they are mistaken and you probably can’t convince them, or you’re mistaken and they can’t convince you, or they are actually being dishonest and calling them out won’t change a thing.
Just present your information, see if you can come to a consensus, and if you can’t then put them on the pay-no-mind list. At best, if we can’t agree on some level of civility then there’s no point in conversation.
My last exalted run was my hunter, He got exalted in 1 week.
I won 2 games that week oiut of idk.
Almost all games it took horde 45m+ to take SHGY, some games we killed Frost Boi 2 times.
Im not saying some games we didnt lose SHGY in like 8 minutes, that typically happens when people go right for other onjectives because like i said we actually need to defend SHGY or we lose the game. You send to many players to do other things youre gonna have a bad day VS the 40 horde zugging into SHGY.
I wouldn’t put much stock into the map criers statistics, it’s very much a fabrication on their part in most cases.
They want everyone to believe the map is causing their supposed 99/1 loss rate in AV and nothing else is having any impact on that loss rate. Their goal is to get the map to favor the alliance so heavily they can still win most games even with over half their team not contributing to that victory vs a full team of horde that are trying to win.
The flaws in their argument can be very easily seen on AV weekends where alliance win rates jump up to around 40% on average because they have a better percentage of skilled/motivated players who are trying to win instead of leech their way to exalted.
The GY selection needs to be looked into and fixed. That is the only map factor truely holding alliance back right now. The rest of it is a player issue.
You ignore the majority with their data because it doesn’t fit your narrative but keep only taking that 1 guys testimony who only had 8 or so games played as if it were law.
Stop picking the data that has no evidence. Where’s these 40% screenshots, go ahead and link them. I will wait.
And delay the horde gate opening a little so the teams meet near the middle of the field of strife instead of the top of it. Both of those fixes should be pretty simple to do and would be a great start toward changing the way AV plays out.
But Blizzard obviously is not going to do anything or they would have at least commented on the situation.