You need to lose the mentality that horde and alliance players are different. They’re really not. If PvE alliance quit when they got exalted so did PvE horde. I understand that doesn’t fit your narrative but it’s true.
I’m sure there are many reasons players don’t play AV and all we can verify is our own. I don’t play AV on this character even though I love AV. I hate this map because it’s just not fun. Am I alone? Doubtful. Are there other reasons alliance don’t queue for AV? Probably.
Without real changes to this map to address obvious flaws, it’s not going to get any better for either faction.
Nah, they have been in the 2 hour range since mid-late February. Sometimes slightly shorter (1.5 hours) sometimes slightly longer (2.5 hours), but almost always around 10-15 games up at any given time. It has been remarkably steady since the premades were killed.
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I do agree with the other parts of your statement though. Specifically this:
And unfortunately, I believe Blizzard has made it abundantly clear they aren’t interested in this kind of thing for Classic even though this particular BG is a bastardized version that was only really used for a few months at best and was clearly intended to be a hold over until the entire BG got overhauled in TBC.
It definitely has been around there, I think it was mostly in the 1:45 range for a bit and tends to be closer to 2:15 now. But there’s a lot of variables going in there so it can be difficult to nail down numbers. Still, there’s no doubt that it was around 20 minutes back when AV was fairly new and it has crept up with the changes Blizzard made in AV and the game at large.
Completely agree. Prior to premades being killed it was in the 40-60 minute range. The day they died (literally) it jumped to 1.5 hours and has been in the 1.5-2.5 range ever since (outside of AV weekends).
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Horde times followed exactly what you said in the original post pre-premade breaking though. Like to a T. First week instant to 5 mins. Second week through first roughly month were 20 mins and the creep just grew larger and larger from there until it was the 40-60 at the end of premade era.
And the whole point is that these changes have contributed to making AV completely unfun. Whether it’s the insane queues horde have to wade through or the insane loss rate the alliance deals with, it’s just not a fun situation.
Buffing the losing side would serve to correct both. Alliance will win more so they’ll queue more and horde can play more games. Even if the win rate gets to 40% for alliance that would be an amazing improvement in all aspects of the game. Then there could be minor tuning to keep the game as fair as possible without sacrificing the fun level.
But, again, Blizzard wants its no-work free money and will not lift a damn finger to help the players.
They were not silent on why they picked this version. It “gave them clarity”. They even acknowledged that players were clamoring for the original more-complete version of the BG, long before they made that decision. They just chose to ignore the masses, give us the neutered bastardized version, and gift what we were actually asking, begging and pleading for, to retail.
If we couldn’t get through to them back when they could have done it right from the start, what hope is there for them to do it now?
Only less than a handful of players actually argued to get this version of AV, and one of them does so to this day. (while ironically being the leader of the defeatist cheerleader squad, and blaming it all on “the map”)
Pvp rep farming is done for gear. After that gear is available they can and many do stop farming that rep because it offers basically nothing outside of rep.
Timberlake hold rep farm mobs are still killed after the rep farm is done for things like fire water, gold, exc.
But pvp reps are a bit different. They are not effective farm methods for anything except the rep they give. You don’t go into AV to farm consumables and gold. So the reason to go on outside of rep is for fun. And if every game you went into AV and half your team is screaming at you to give up… It’s not fun. This is mostly a player made issue. The map is a factor, but compared to the issues player behavior is causing, the map is a small factor.
You keep spouting this nonsense and can’t take the truth. The issue isn’t because Alliance have always played this way, I’m not sure why you keep pretending it is.
The map has caused alliance to play this way, not sure where you keep getting mixed up on this fact.
If the cave rez was fixed do you think alliance would still play this way?
This version lasted as long as it did because there weren’t any major patches coming after Naxx and they knew they were overhauling it in TBC. Had there been a 1.13 instead of a 2.1, I believe this version would have probably undergone additional changes. I have no way to prove that though other than the fact that Blizzard was clearly unsatisfied with the map as a whole given the large number of changes made leading up to the final 1.12 variant.
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Personally, I prefer the version of TBC complete with reinforcements. It is more balanced (at least if they give us the final version) than what we have now and it also provides a more finite ending. I am a little bit worried they are going to roll TBC out in patch waves since they probably have those stored somewhere. While I would enjoy the various iterations, the absolute last thing I want to see is 2.1-2.2 AV. #sigh.
I agree, I think that the BG need some sort of natural way to wind-down. A timer or reinforcements or some other resource that gets used up. Otherwise the games can just be trolled and kept alive even past when there is a clear winner. Or, worse, two extremely well-matched teams just clash over and over and make no progress on winning the game.
Not to mention that there should be multiple routes and ways to win a BG. Maybe killing the boss is one way, or completing a series of objectives is another, or gathering enough of a resource, and so on. That way a team who is having trouble assaulting a certain point can do something else to win, increasing the strategic options in a game.
If the cave was “fixed” there are still some alliance that will play as they do now. Part of the cause of this player behavior is the instant que times.
You try to blame everything on the map. The map is not the cause of every issue alliance have in AV.
Stop pretending its just Alliance who have these issues in any BG, its not.
This WHOLE TOPIC is about the “cave rez situation” which im sure we have ALL AGREED on is an issue.
Your stance is how big of an issue, which makes it seem like its not really an issue at all, im sorry you cant fathom the idea that a faction not being able to hold their FIRST objective seems small tou you, i assure you it isnt,
I have said this numerous times, when we held Druids you guys couldnt take SHGY for usually an hour, until you summoned Ice Boi to come help, THAT WAS US REZING 10 AT A TIME BTW.
Imagine instead of SH bunker being there our cave was there, as soon as you killed us in that hour to FINALLY soft cap SHGY we now rez 20 seconds away 20 at a time instead of 10, YOU WOULD NEVER HOLD SHGY, now imagine that you are unable to get a foothold on FOS to summon Ice Boi like Alliance to help you push us out of SHGY, because in most games you cant do it alone with us just REZING 10 AT A TIME.
The fact is even if you downgrade how big of an issue it is, which you are btw, its still an obvious issue and the main vocal point of this topic.
These points have been made over and over again. They aren’t listening, they are just trolling. They’ve found an argument that they know will tweak certain people and get a response and if you engage all you’ll get is the same thing from them.
There is a factor that vastly helps prevent bots, leechers, levelers, afkers, exc being common for horde AV.
The que time.
You continue to ignore this factor and the effects it has on the effort people will put into the match. Fast ques encourage bots, leeching, exc. Long ques discourage it. Why? Efficiency of time used. If you wait 2+ hours for a match you will be trying to maximize what you get out of it. If you waited 10 seconds? Who cares I can just sit back and watch youtube while my team does the work for me to get my honor/rep. Just loot bodies and sit in the back, or bot. And as for levelers, waiting 2+ hours to get exp isn’t worth it either. But being able to go kill some harpies on demand? Why not…