Again, no they absolutely did not highlight the issue. The strategy was literally kill Balinda then turtle. That’s absolutely nothing like the issue we are having today.
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The “rankers” are generally not the best PVPers. Usually they are the ones who simply are best at avoiding PVP and gaining honor the fastest. For example, by only playing fast BG as premades vs PUGs.
Actually PVP against most of them and they fold pretty quickly.
This gets said a lot. Generally speaking, I see where you (and Ziryus, Drinknblink because they say it a lot too) are coming from with this point. This may be the case now. It definitely wasn’t the case in January when rankers were expected to be hitting full on consumes to be in the best premades. I am willing to concede that I could be wrong here. I honestly would love it if Blizzard would make the change so I could be proven incorrect.
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It was the same even then. The top premades stacked the deck by making sure everyone had the fastest mount, gloves, spurs. They made sure they had the best comp of roles and classes. They came with tons of consumables.
What they were doing was avoiding fights. They’d rush to the boss, overwhelm a few defenders if they had to, and finish the BG in 5 mins. They weren’t doing PVP, they were using the best means of avoiding it.
The best PVPers were the ones who didn’t do all this and still did well. But the comprise a small amount of the total players who do AV and they are far outnumbered by the whole situation.
The map doesn’t cause you to have people que up for instant ques and afk at the back
The instant que times do that.
Alliance have much less motivation to win partially due to their perception of the map imbalance believing it gives horde a near garentee win, when it doesn’t, there’s many more factors causing that 99% loss rate. This causes much more leeching and reputation farm pve simulation players.
The skill gap is very much there from the HPH efficiency due to game duration and lack of being able to premade. This can be seen clearly on AV weekend when alliance winrates “magically” jump up drastically.
You try to blame everything on the map, if print many factors like, que time to game duration, lack of premades, exc. Causing less motivated, less skilled and less geared players to be more common on the alliance team than the horde and this is what drastically changes during AV weekend when the HPH becomes competitive and the motivated, skilled and geared alliance players come back.
Sure the map is a factor, but it’s not the major factor you try to make it out to be. It is not the sole reason you lose.
That’s like saying the only ingredient needed to make a cake is eggs. You need a lot more than eggs to make a cake, so stop trying to blame one factor for everything as if it’s the sole reason alliance lose AV outside of AV weekend.
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Disagree with you here. The best premades were the ones that would stop, obliterate the horde attempting to stop their rush, then move forward. Not saying all premades had that mentality, but there were good ones that ran past and there were great ones that trashed everything in their path. They didn’t ride past diddly. Some of the most actual skill I saw this time around (meaning classic) came from premades. Talking small team fights, 1v1s, and the like that aren’t the coordination games you are referencing. I haven’t seen the level of skilled play I saw within those games outside of premades. And I am not talking about coordination. I am talking individual skill.
You mean after the win conditions were changed to reinforcement mechanics?
Ya changing the win conditions vastly changes how effective a strategy is.
Horde can’t win AV classic by defending endlessly, so why do you think alliance should be winning when that’s all they do 99% of the time and never even TRY to offence?
I don’t even need to read any of this it’s all your feels again.
Bunch of made-up stats.
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The top rankers weren’t doing those types of games, they were too slow for them. They wanted fast all-rush runs so they could get as many done as possible.
It was the second or third string premades that were fighting because they had to. They couldn’t coordinate well enough to avoid the enemy so they fought them. They had better PVPers but not the top rankers because fighting is, generallly, slower than rushing.
Of course, there is some overlap between the groups but the point is that being a ranker doesn’t mean you’re good at PVP. The groups without rankers actually tend to be better at PVP because they learn how to fight rather than how to avoid it.
It amazes me how your confusing logic with feelings when it goes against your feelings.
There’s a cause an effect to things, the map is a factor for your losses, it is not the main factor though regardless of how you feel on it.
A multitude of other factors has been shown to you and your response is “because of the map none of those things matter”.
When you learn to use logic over your feelings maybe then we can have a discussion instead of you constantly throwing insults when you can’t create a counter argument?
I’ll be waiting for that.
Nah man, in this case we aren’t describing the same thing at all. The very elite groups weren’t fighting because they had to and we aren’t talking some long drawn out thing either. When I say smashed Horde, I mean absolutely smashed us. Like I would take those groups over literally anything either side had to offer at the time. They were really just that good. We would roll 25 up on them and 1 minute later they have killed all 25 of us and are riding south. There were some crazy good groups that weren’t just rushing.
.
And I legitimately do remember the groups you are describing too. The ones that run past were typical. The ones that weren’t as good and got stuck in 20-30 minute games were fairly common too. Those aren’t the ones I am talking about.
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Those kind of groups were very, very few. Sure it’d be nice to have them but they made up a couple of percent of the total players. Even if they were 10% that means you’d get 4 of them a game without premades. Hardly enough to make a big difference and 10% is being generous.
Their big strength was getting 30+ of them in the same BG and organized to smash. In a PUG their effectiveness is far, far less.
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Absolutely agree. I am mainly saying that those were the very best pvpers Alliance side. Would see a group like that maybe 1 in 15 games. But when we got that group it was just over. Individual combat, small team fights, large fights. It literally didn’t matter. Those were the best players Alliance had to offer. I don’t think Horde had anything even remotely comparable at the time.
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Edit: It was how I picture Ram Team 7 lol.
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Pot meet kettle.
Almost everything you say is opinion and feels.
You have no real stats of what the actual win rates are during AV weekends you took Scott’s 10 games as hard data, yet ignores the dozen other people who posted less than a 10% win rate.
Again you ignore data when it counters your perception of everything.
Like I said above all you post is a symptom of the map. Horde would be in the same boat if tables were turned, like you agreed before we are the same player base, you aren’t any different from any alliance player, you fight an imbalanced map for 8 months, see if you don’t give up.
This HPH argument is about the dumbest thing you lot come up with. Rankers don’t want PvP they want to premade stomp pugs. No ranker is going to do AV no matter the balance, that’s not what we are saying, you clearly don’t understand anything people say. If the map was balanced people would play AV more, the pool of players that are added would have good players.
You act as if horde are some elite squadron of players here to stomp AV. They aren’t, you could take horde and make them play alliance side and they would lose, just like I can do 100 AVs on this mage and win maybe 4, but I could hop on my horde 60 and win 96 of them. You are dilusional if you think it isn’t the map.
Even if what you say has Merritt, it gets washed up in all the stupid things you say.
I have explained this over and over, the MAJORITY of AV issues for alliance stem from an imbalanced map and losing for 8 months. You’re going off feels more than anyone. Was alliance so submissive in the first month of when pre-mades broke?? No they weren’t. Losing 8 months straight puts things in perspective.
You lot act as if AV is some ever evolving random battleground, it’s not, it’s very linear, and unsurprising. There is no game breaking strats, you take a graveyard, cap it and move to the next, there’s only so much a group of players can change a strat for something so simple. There are only so many attack points.
Alliance either go SF, IBGY, FWGY, RHGY. That’s the only attackable options, you are all acting as if we didn’t evolve or something stupid.
Your idea of us trying is full world buffs, full raid buffs and consumes, full PvP consumes. When in reality do horde need that?? It should be EQUAL. It’s clearly not.
Nothing you say will change that, you are ignorant and clueless and almost all your suggestions are laughable.
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Oddly enough, those players stepping into AV on holiday weekends do not magically make the bad players stop queueing. Much less raise the win rate to the level of a small team premade.
In related news, my Camaro cannot reach the speed limit with 1,000lbs of iron anchors chained to the rear bumper.
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He never posts with his classic character, nor does he speak of specific personal experiences in classic AV.
Ever suspect that he doesn’t actually play classic?
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Well you better go complain to whoever maintains the road then, because according to the “logic” of some of the forum posters in here, that’s the roads fault. Lol.
He prolly has Rams in the way according to some morons who post here.
that’s not necessarily true, the themes of the alliance attract different types of players and the same is true for the horde. the horde are war mongering savages so it only makes sense for the players for them to like pvp. alliance are more into building cities and governement, politics, leisure, stuff like that, so it mkes sense that the players are more into roleplay and pve.
Horde players aren’t better at PvP because of RP.
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