As a Horde main with an Alliance alt that I don’t really play…
I’m all for throwing the Alliance a bone and making it more even. As it is now, I feel really bad for them. I personally don’t mind the queue Horde side, since it lets me farm and do other things and ranking up is easy on a PvE server, but I do feel like the current meta is really unhealthy for them.
Ally premades didn’t force this and if horde had NOT started doing this the games would have remained short and Horde queue times would have stayed down due to both sides having relatively short queues with roughly even winrates giving both sides high honor per hour and good rep per hour.
Every iteration of vanilla AV would be exactly the same because they all have the same broken parts of the map.
I don’t think it’s useful to debate why this happened, but it’s a fact that the horde defensive advantage from the cave to IB GY existed and was rarely used before classic in similar circumstances (AV 1.12).
It’s also a fact that it’s being used in virtually every AV at this point.
At some level, yes it’s due to alliance premades forcing horde turtles which grew into this scorched earth strategy that we see now.
But now that it’s discovered and out in the open, it needs to be dealt with, the BG is basically broken at this point and the only way to fix it organically is to convince horde to stop playing defense. But why would horde stop defending and let alliance develop an offense when we have a near guaranteed win strategy available by capping SH GY and wiping all alliance south of IWB…
Honestly, I’ve played about 50 AVs now as alliance, and we’ve won 3 of them. The cave respawn sucks, but it isn’t the main reason alliance loses. Right now it is av weekend, so there are more rankers who have better gear than the average av pug on non av weekends. But we still lose most games because alliance simply is not as good as horde.
And really, the SP defense is just as easy as defending IB. Horde have to travel halfway across the map to get a gy with the ally cave closer to it than IB is to the horde spawn. Yet most games we have a solid offense in just hand sp and aid station to horde with no resistance, making winning a race unlikely to happen. All the while it is easy to choke point the cave spawners with hunter traps and aoe when we have solid healing. Getting to IB from the cave isn’t easy when the alliance has a good team.
The biggest imbalance imo is actually how Ivus is summoned pretty much in the middle of where the horde is pushing, making him almost impossible to win (between my 2 60s, I’ve played over 100 avs and have never seen him).
If the cave got pushed back along with the Ivus summon location, I bet alliance would win 1 out of every 10 games instead of 1d out of 15-20
Really. The queue is probably the biggest reason why ally loses more. The horde are willing to win an hour long av, whereas after 5 minutes you already have alliance giving up, or you have some ally rankers pushing for a strat meant to lose fast. It is in the interest of ally to lose fast while getting lts and galc, because it is better for than a long 1+ hour win.
Oh this is surely going to be good!
Horde have this issue as well, as you have late-joiners, selfish players, etc, in equal numbers on both sides. This isn’t a factor.
Oh this one is fun. People cutting their losses to net themselves maximum reputation in the face of a highly hard to win BG isn’t a “stupid strategy” at all. Alliance “giving up” isn’t a lack of going for Drek’thar, but no longer pushing because LTs are dead and maximum reputation has been earned, again because of the latter.
Or just die because the cave spawn whittles everyone down… /giggle
Not even close, but nice try!
Moving on from these asinine trolls.
I lost an AV today. First one in months. Alliance played like they always go full out - was a really good game imo.
Its like they wanted to win or something.
Your team was just really really bad
Sounds like they needed to “git gud”
I guess you could say that because they let the alliance play the pve race game. By the time the horde figured out 30 plus alliance were south (despite the 80 lines of chat) they had IBGY and both towers.
The horde were so enamored they werent turtled at SHGY they just ran north and forgot about everything else.
That picture paints a far different picture than just saying " I guess alliance wanted to win".
Horde were absolute garbage in that game. That’s what it takes for alliance to win, for horde to ignore IBGY.
If 15-20 went to recap it alliance would auto lose.
The alliance knew exactly what they were doing. The horde let themselves get duped - they forgot its AV weekend and thought it was business as usual.
Anyway, there was still plenty of pvp, allies back capping SHB and what not - they were just better. Which tells me they were sufficiently motivated because we didnt just let them roll over us.
Yes you did.
See what happens if you don’t use the horde map advantage?
You can be in denial all you want, but the difference in quality of player is obvious to people who have played AV on both factions. It isn’t even close, and you have to be either trolling or not experienced it to deny it.
Horde queue is 2 hours on non AV weekend, 1 hour on AV weekend. Alliance queue is instant. So horde will simply try harder, defend more, and not give up as easily. I know this, because I’ve played over 50 AVs on each side.
On non AV weekend, alliance rankers don’t queue, because it isn’t good honor. On AV weekend, they don’t try and would prefer fast losses while killing galv and LTs for maximum honor, instead of over an hour long wins. Same reason so many alliance premades will throw an AB where they have a 3 cap so they can 5 cap the next game. The honor system rewards honor per hour, not winning more.
And I’m not even saying the average player who rolls alliance is worse than the average player who rolls horde. But the average alliance player in AV is objectively less useful than the average horde player in AV. Go try horde av some time, it is insane how different the players are due to the queue and how the honor system works.
Edit: and it is more rewarding to bot AV on alliance side than it is for horde due to instant queues, so people do it more. Of course this is anticdotal, but I see more people botting on alliance than I do on horde.
Alliance don’t give up easily, there’s a very specific break point where there’s no point in continuing and most alliance know what it is. Once SHGY is soft capped and there’s no longer enough alliance south to hold anything the game is effectively over, it’s just a matter of time.
No. Horde are not uniquely blessed with better players.
On AV weekends, Alliance rankers don’t queue either.
Which means the Alliance are playing well.
Hard to be useful against a brain-dead strategy that works whether you have a Rank 14, geared to the teeth, perfectly played character at the front… or a fresh-faced lvl60. Alliance aren’t being less useful, they’re playing to maximize their honor and their reputation no different than bouncing out of a prolonged WSG or a stalled AB.
IF winning AV was something we could do with some reasonably certainty, we’d do it, given the instant queues and mass of honor would make a win so valuable. But we don’t, because we can’t, so it isn’t an option.
The only “viable” strategy is to attempt a mass zerg and hope you have sufficient Healers and gear to actually make it happen. This gamble is extraordinarily bad because if it fails, as it most often does, then you forego stalling at SHGY long enough to maximize turn-ins while soaking up some honorable kills. It also kills off any chance of really netting NPC kills for reputation as well.
I never said the horde are blessed with better players. I don’t have crayons to explain it any simpler for you, so I won’t even try.
Oh really?
Odd way of “not saying” a thing you explicitly said.
Yes, I am a much better player on my Horde characters compared to my Alliance characters.
Lmao, read my whole post again. You are clearly trolling me or can’t read
And I’m not even saying the average player who rolls alliance is worse than the average player who rolls horde. But the average alliance player in AV is objectively less useful than the average horde player in AV. Go try horde av some time, it is insane how different the players are due to the queue and how the honor system works.
But that is your only explanation, horde play better, for reasons.