no because it was on AV weekend when I had good players to execute the strats
when horde are top 15 on KD there is no strat in the world that will work
Who or what do you expect to queue into a 90%+ loss rate? I love AV but even I will not keep putting myself through that so what kind of players do that on a daily basis?
I guess Iâm not sure what youâre expecting from alliance who have accepted defeat after months of Blizzard ignoring their pleas.
I won 35% of my AVs on AV weekend. Why should that be celebrated? Thatâs abysmal and thatâs with supposedly the top of the alliance PvPers involved.
Youâre blaming alliance when the blame falls on Blizzard, first for giving us this map and second for ignoring obvious flaws.
2 Likes
Itâs simple. Horde have 2 hour queues, alliance 5 minutes. That suggests that there are on the order of 24 times as many horde queueing as alliance. The win ratio is over 20:1 most times. The honor/rep numbers are completely lopsided.
No matter what the underlying cause may be, itâs split along faction lines. Itâs a faction issue.
It may be a skill issue, it may be a map issue, it may be a desire issue, it may be a social issue. There are many possible root causes for the imbalance.
This is Blizzardâs game. They write the software, they create the systems, they guide the players with their policies. To some extent the player interaction is organic but we still follow Blizzardâs lead. When Blizzard didnât like premades in AV they changed the rules even though that was totally a player-made situation. Similarly, Blizzard should step in and try to correct this imbalanced situation.
Otherwise AV is a dead BG. Queues will continue to go up for horde, most alliance will just rep farm, the BG wonât be played as it was clearly intended: teams fighting over killing the enemyâs boss. Is that what we want?
That speaks directly to the weight of those that are dragging the rest down. The talent and effort on holiday weekends is higher, but still diluted by alliance players that refuse to try.
Iâve won before too. I could certainly take a screen shot of the occasional win. I could represent the win rate as being X when itâs Y. I could bring in other people to bolster my case.
None of this matters. They got a lucky streak, they arenât being honest, maybe they are even being honest and making a difference. It doesnât matter. Even at their best the game is still far from 50-50.
There is a problem in AV, it should be looked at. Weâre just going in circles here because the ones who need to work on it are Blizzard.
Arguing over strats and win rates and all is just a waste of time until then. Clearly, there is no magic strategy out there that will turn everything around and make the BG a 50-50 one. And the reasons for that are deeply rooted in game design, BG design, and social issues.
Blizzard needs to iterate on this issue, pick the low-hanging fruit, change it, evaluate, and repeat until the situation improves. Right now they are silent about that and there is no apparent moves to fix it. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.
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Player choice led us here. Blizz cant lead us out. Even if they changed something thereâs no guarantee anything will improve and a chance it could get worse or have a slew of unintended consequences.
Thatâs murky. Certainly thereâs some player choice involved but itâs also likely there are some design and gameplay issues at hand. The aspects interact in tricky ways, a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem.
Blizzard might be able to lead us out and they should try because right now itâs wedged tightly and wonât resolve on its own. Yes, thereâs no clear and definite fix that can be made but there are certainly things that could be tried. For example, the way the GY work or where the teams meet in the BG.
Try a few small and simple fixes, see if that helps, if not then try something else. Itâs already horribly broken, at this point thereâs nearly no downside to trying a few things.
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Thereâs that possibility but even then you have to ask how much of an impact its having and it might be much further down the list behind several innocuous reasons like the pvp meta or just a general disinterest in AV after rep rewards. But then you want to treat it like its something that desperately needs saving as if its priority numero uno to get alliance into AV no matter what.
AV rep is super fast and easy, especially in comparison to the other bgs. When you play under the meta weâre in where everything is about fast rewards and little else there is very little incentive to in there unless you love AV and historically AV has more of a cult following then a mainstream one.
So of that 99% loss rate after adding good players back into the pool you go to about 40% win rate, still carrying the dead weight that is the defeatist players.
So even if we assume that 40/60 split is only caused by the map and not the dead weight players alliance have in mass⌠Then the map is not the major cause of your losses. Sure itâs a contributor, but not nearly the major causeâŚ
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Sure, itâs probably a bit from column A and a bit from column B. But there are clearly areas Blizzard can work on and maybe those changes will encourage participation and effort. Maybe they wonât.
But doing nothing will just continue the slide, thatâs pretty obvious from the past months and months of the problems. Itâs not showing signs of much improvement and there are signs it may be getting worse. Doing nothing shouldnât be an option for Blizzard.
Outside of AV weekend, I doubt alliance wins more than 1-3% of games.
During AV weekend, itâs probably around 10-20%.
Still, that should tell you what you need to know. When you get relatively equal teams, the win rate is still showing a drastic imbalance.
Even on AV weekends, itâs extremely rare to lose more than 20% of my games. And that should be the times when it should be 50-50 due to highly geared players on both sides.
Yes player apathy (i.e. rankers not showing up and an overabundance of alts) is the reason the alliance win rate gets squashed outside of AV weekend, but it all starts from the map imbalance.
The map imbalance is the cause, everything else derives from that.
9 Likes
Yeah and it could also do nothing, make things worse somehow, piss off the horde so they abandon AV in turn or perhaps embolden them even more and theyâll make it their lifes mission to make sure you never win another AV again.
The cave situation is not some unknown wild card, itâs a known issue that was eventually addressed in retail when it became a problem. And while horde can certainly still try to play scorched earth it becomes harder for them with the cave situation fixed.
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Until Blizz comes in and says so its not a known issue. Its player opinion bordering on conspiracy theory. Weâre also a year into this and theyve changed like 70 things that are nowhere near as catastrophic as this is being portayed and somehow the AV horde cave cant even get so much as a blue post - and they actually went in and made changes to the map already.
Also, the cave push back in AV in retail coincided with the win condition change of reinforcements.
Furthermore, if the cave is a problem because it puts too many horde south for the alliance to reliably handle then how is pushing the cave back farther south going to do anything?
An issue can be known through means other than Blizzard. This is because they may know about it and choose to let it fester for various reasons. A loss rate of 95%+ and the very many other issues leave little doubt thereâs an issue. Anyone saying there isnât one is just being disingenuous.
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Real issues get addressed. The cave hasnt been addressed. 1+1 = 2.
Aaand you just joined the ranks of people with whom there is no point in civil discourse. Good day sir.
4 Likes
Yeah, because Im not swayed by your sophistry it must mean Im a ruthless demagogue unable to have a discussion. If the proof was really in the pudding these posts wouldnt be a problem for you.
But they are. Godspeed son.
What does that even mean?