Yeah but I just mean if one team has somebody doing good callouts and keeping people focused, that’s really all you need as far as leadership goes.
Everybody knows the map at this point.
The “strategy” is to just stay focused on objectives and not fight in the middle or away from them.
His problem and the problem with virtually all the people claiming there’s a magic alliance strategy is that they seem to treat the flags like AB flags. There’s no comprehension of the over all terrain and how that impacts horde reinforcing vs alliance and that the flags have to be held for a decent amount of time to actually turn.
So the difference between a hard and soft cap and how that impacts the over all game differently for alliance vs horde.
Exactly. Most of the time, alliance only defend SH GY, and rarely push to other objectives while doing so.
I still contend the major reason alliance lose is A) because they lose the team fights, generally even with a defender advantage over SH, and B) the graveyard resurrection order is inaccurate!!
Horde can afford to let IBGY soft cap in exchange for soft capping SHGY, alliance have to take south southern GY while holding SHGY.
And yes changing the rez order to exclude the cave from being an option until all other GY’s are capped would very much change that dynamic.
Sshhhhhh!
Let us keep pushing them back into the bottle neck to aoe them down!
I’d argue that 25 or so alliance can hold off 40 horde at the bridge for quite a long time… Maybe that would open up some opportunity?
We never see this in classic, though, when it was so common in vanilla. Wonder why that is…
It will become a decisive factor if/when the respawn issues are fixed.
Once respawn issues are fixed, horde will likely reach SP GY before alliance reaches FW GY but then alliance can stall better at the bridge. Will lead to a lot more interesting games.
I’ve seen games where this happens, but alliance have 10 or so still playing D and continually harassing SH.
Alliance will have 25 or so strong at IB GY.
The Horde then have to over commit to back capping, which leaves SH exposed.
We take SH back then push SF and the war rages on.
You say I have a poor understanding of the map, but you think there is no possible counter for 40 horde rushing SH GY and back capping.
agreed though keeping SH and taking IB GY is ideal.
…and Correct Hawne. Zlryus wants a magic one line strat that wins 50% of games. That is not the case.
My ‘strat’ consists of 16 different macros, chats, callouts, etc.
Yes, there is an “opening”, but most of the time that opening fails and I’m left with contingencies.
Moves and counter moves.
Yes. They fail to play offense, or give up on offense if the first initial push fails.
So I went into AV last night on my pve combat daggers spec’d rogue. Got into a game in progress. Saw an alliance priest and warrior sneaking back to the Horde base. I follow them. They engage the flag guardians. I kill them both. This is the typical quality of alliance player I see every game I am in. The only difference is that unlike the games I normally join where I am using an alt and am also not great, in this game I was on my main and destroyed them. I am sorry, but 2v1 with a priest + warrior, you should win that fight against a solo rogue and his merry helpers easily enough.
Which is pretty funny given that the Horde strategy typically includes a wide variety of call outs once initial contact is made. I am sure your strategy does that as well. Initial contact, see what you are dealing with, make situational call outs that lead to obtaining objectives. The only difference is that half the time Horde don’t have anything situational because Alliance just sit at SHGY.
Guys, stop responding to redhead and misadventure. They’re both trolls. They have zero idea what they’re talking about. They are not worth the keystrokes on your keyboard.
Do you think we don’t have similar encounters? My poorly geared mage 2v1’d a rogue and Druid trying to ninja cap DB south last night. There is no way a mage who isn’t even in full pre raid BiS yet should be able to do that.
I’ll accept that part of the fault lies on attitude, but the whole horde are better players nonsense needs to be put to rest. Alliance have lost so much, it’s hard to keep a positive attitude. Either faction would react the same way in the same situation. It’s why horde didn’t even try if they saw a premade. It’s not a horde/alliance thing. It’s human nature.
Anyone arguing that the root of the issue is not the map is either being dishonest or is so deeply in denial they are incapable of being objective on the topic. Classic AV is a disaster so why are people arguing in favor of it?
I don’t recall arguing that the Horde are inherently better at pvp. I recall arguing more of horde’s good players are in AV. That might not be true anymore, but it was for a solid 3+ months after the premades were killed.
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I also don’t recall arguing that the map isn’t a root cause. I recall arguing that it is a 10-20% tilt making it a 40-60 / 30-70 map. I also recall saying that’s not fair and should be corrected. It can be overcome. It still puts Alliance behind the 8 ball from the start.
This would favor the alliance actually. Their bases are more defensible further into the map than the horde. How do you propose to balance that?
I don’t understand what you’re asking
Have we at least agreed to the following:
I agree with the top 3. The alliance currently don’t use the bridge correctly, but that is a player issue and isn’t really relevant to whether there is an imbalance on the map. It is a sub issue that doesn’t really need to be addressed.
If they worked on the above top three issues then Alliance would actually res on the other side of the bridge where it mattered.
The cave Resurrection is actually making it so it’s harder to use the bridge so that fix is actually two fold
Yes, but the bridge strategy itself is not reliant on that rez point. It is reliant on Alliance getting objectives south then recalling 10-15 and holding the bridge against Horde going north. Right now Alliance use it as a defensive bunker (if they use it) and that’s pretty much a guaranteed loss by that point.