Like it or not 1.12 is authentic Vanilla. Guess what: guilds were still doing MC for the first time at that point. In fact, more guilds were doing Rag than KT in 1.12.
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Yeah, our group was throwing it around about 5 years ago when we were back-porting Java 8 features into a Java 7 VM. But it was thrown around casually, so I figured it had been used for a while. We also called it âFrankenJavaâ 
There were several balance changes. I think one was the firelords that spawned little versions on a timer in combat, and originally they wouldnât de spawn on wipes, making any further attempt impossible as the amount of adds became untenable.
Fun times back in the day.
I guess I happened to create the term without knowing it already existed XD. All good though.
That happens!
Because youâre damn lucky they even had backups of code for a version of the game that hasnât been used in over a decade! Simply put, they donât have the 1.1 code any more. Those unarmored mounts or original AV or any one of a number of things yâall are talking about literally just donât exist, even in code, any more. So what you are asking them to do is to redevelop things only to redevelop them again as the patch cycle continues. This isnât like opening Photoshop and using a color tool to remove blemishes on your photos, or make your convex curves concave. It takes a lot of work to do crap like that. And youâre asking them to do it multiple times, all at the same graphical standard, without adding in new bugs unintentionallyâŚ
Yes, youâre asking too much for something that is a free addon to the main WoW subscription.
They would bring multiple times the revenue that they currently do with retail, would be worth it.
Also, the main game is Classic.
Retail is the fluff
Your saying it does not make it so. The development hours for that would be horrendous, in an industry that already relies on persistent crunch schedules.
And, frankly, just because you believe the main game is Classic does not mean Blizzard, or even the majority of WoW players, agree with you. It certainly does not mean that they expect even a brief spike in revenue from Classic to trump that of the main game unless they start rolling out new content for Classic when the post-Naxx content drought hits. For Classic to be an actual moneymaker, rather than a museum piece that primarily serves to preserve their IP rights, you need either Classic+ or TBC. Otherwise, the main game will always be Retail, because thatâs where the money and the continuing lore is.
Esfand has brought up a great point, while Iâm in the #nochanges group, Iâm only there for authenticity. I would love for MC and BWL bosses to launch in their near non-nerfed states. Also, the bosses should tweaked so that they feel like they were as tough as when they were launched. I still feel that theyâd be easier due to us being better players today then we were then.
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Wasnât BWL the opposite? Like, all of the bosses were missing key abilities and people were able to clear all the way up to Nefarian in the first day?
The keyword is overall. If a player started late in the game, they didnt get the overall experience. So yes, that means there are few of us left to know what that was like.
Or if they started early but did nothing but create 100 alts, they didnt get it either. You had to have pvp and raided.
Of course it is. But i wouldnât be as disappointed if they didnât say THE authentic experience vs if they said A vanilla experience.
I believe not, I watched a video from Punkrat interviewing the first Scarab Lord, the guy was saying that Vaelstraza was not believed to be killable at first and would give Blizzard time to tweak/fix post encounters. I think they were able to clear to Chromaggus. Iâd have to rewatch, but essentially they had GMâs watching them clear BWL after Vael, which they had initially thought they had cheated to get past the gate.
Regarding the tuning, its hard to say, I donât remember or wasnât in end game myself at the time. I think they were still in the boat of 8 debuff slots initially.
What defines that non nerfed state and how do we find that non nerfed state? Do we just increase the HP armor and Resists to match the values of the increased rDPS from 16 slots? What is the time frame of that correct experience that we should expect to have? I ask these questions because that is what we are asking of the Devs to go look at when they open up these tables.
I would again argue that the idea of not touching the data is to not get into that quagmire of trying to define what is and is not a feeling or time frame for the player base or any particular raid.
So i had that full experience and i donât think it matters one bit that they are going with this experience. I think players will still fail in MC and BWL though maybe less than before. I saw this first hand when i started with a friends guild leading into TBC. MC had been nearly 2 years at that point and people were still not able to understand mechanics.
Again people talk about the experince of 15 years ago like they could go into the game and on there own and say. Yup thats the feeling right there i know this is how the boss should feel.
You may have a great guild and just rofl stomp the whole instance, you may have some guild of randos who havent played Vanilla in 15 years, if ever, and with all the knowledge in the world STILL need to progress in MC.
I would say that if 1.12 MC is;
----------|â
and 1.1 is;
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then;
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could be easily hit, w/o fear of Blizzard messing it up, which is what I think Esfand was ultimately trying to say.
What else should we change to âfeelâ like the launch experience?
- Leveling is easier in 1.12, right?
- Dungeons as well.
- PvP will be different, some classes are stronger with patch 1.12 talents compared to others. Should classes be balanced to match the early Vanilla experience or is PvP not included in your cry for authenticity?
Is it truly authentic bringing the first raids closer to the difficulty of Naxxramas, or should we tune Naxxramas to keep the same disparity in difficulty compared to the older raids that it had in Vanilla?
-Sure, for classes that were overhauled pre 1.12, but overall I donât really think so
-Not sure if they were ever nerfed, or if 5 mans really can push 8+ debuffs realistically
-druids and paladins being stronger in pvp doesnât really bother me, in fact I invite the challenge, curious how others feel on this topic though.
Ultimately, I think we are arguing towards the slippery slope here, and yes classes being tweaked would be opening that can of worms. I say #nochanges in that regard.
However, raiding will be progressive for those that go in unprepared. MC nerfed state + 16 debuffs + some classes being stronger could always be hard if you jump right in fresh 60, and some guilds will be doing this.
Though I think 90% of guilds might rofl stomp the content more then intended, which could put classic initially in a bad spot. IMO
You should see Daremâs thread with his huge list of 5 man nerfs.
Oh, itâs a double standard then? According to a vast number of people on these forums, raiding is a minor part of the Vanilla experience. Why would such a minor part of the experience be worth retuning to match the earlier difficulty but everything else is just âmeh, doesnât matterâ?
No its not, I think its much easier to tune with intent when tuning 1 avenue(bosses) instead of multiple(classes)
Raiding is a small part of the game as a whole, but something I think players would ultimately base their opinions off of if the difficulty is lackluster.