Cant you just put a filter on results to show only stacks?
This can be either good or bad. Good because it “may” keep people from posting stacks of one on the AH, but at the same time it can turn out bad for the the player as well. Now I know there are a lot of players sitting in tons of gold, but I am not one of them. I think between all my characters I may have 1.5 million in gold. 3000 gold deposit for a stack of 200 is pretty pricey in my opinion and in turn it would hike the AH prices up even more.
Ysithens, my friend. This is amazing. I owe you a drink just for saying it, and your tab will never end if it goes through.
Walling, while legitimate, is a destructive tactic and it needs to be curbed. I'd accept higher restrictions to see it happen, but this is truly elegant. Thanks for sharing, and count this as a big thumbs up.
Walling, while legitimate, is a destructive tactic and it needs to be curbed. I'd accept higher restrictions to see it happen, but this is truly elegant. Thanks for sharing, and count this as a big thumbs up.
While I dislike seeing pages of single sale mats I think the people who should be held accountable are the people who make add-ons like tsm who do this by default rather then players trying to break even in the 1% run wow economy
Why not just make it possible to sell part of a stack and give the AH interface the option to buy the "X cheapest", instead? Then stacks of one would simply not matter at all and everyone's AH experience would be better. The sellers would be able to put stacks of 200 instead of having to place stacks in convenient sizes (5, 10, 15, 20) and people could always just get what they want.
If you can't afford that just let addons access more of the AH and I'm sure someone will do it for you. You already have options that let us download the whole AH, why not let us use that to make purchases, why must we navigate through the pages like this?
If you can't afford that just let addons access more of the AH and I'm sure someone will do it for you. You already have options that let us download the whole AH, why not let us use that to make purchases, why must we navigate through the pages like this?
08/27/2018 11:24 PMPosted by SapyI'm the author of TSM, and I thought it'd be interesting to look at real data on this. So, I downloaded a dump of the entire AH my realm, US-Tichdronius (using Blizzard's API). This realm is the 2nd biggest US realm according to realmpop.com and the 8th highest in terms of auctions posted at the time of me writing this (according to TSM's data). Here is what I found.
In this auction dump that I used, there are a total of 147194 auctions.
If we go super-broad, and look at all items which fall under the "Trade Goods" category on the AH (regardless of expansion), there are 62355 total auctions, with 31235 single stacks. Of those single stack auctions, 18635 are posted by sellers with more than 20 auctions of the item posted.
If we take a look at BfA crafting materials (this Wowhead query: https://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=166:217;8:1;0:0) specifically, this brings us down to 34703 auctions in total, with 19070 single stacks. Of those single stack auctions, 13738 are posted by sellers with more than 20 auctions of the item posted.
So, if we assume Blizzard is specifically targeting BfA crafting materials with this change, at best, this will result in roughly a 10% decrease in the total number of auctions posted. Now, you could argue that there is a compound effect where less pages worth of items means addons make less queries to Blizzard's servers. I don't personally believe that effect is very significant in this case, as most players aren't spending a significant amount of time at the AH using addons (like TSM) which search through every single page of crafting materials. I'd guess that even those who use TSM are spending the majority of their AH time searching for items which aren't BfA crafting materials (i.e. they are posting crafted items, or sniping, or shopping for transmog). It would be nice if we had more data to back up my assumptions here, but alas it's just an educated guess.
I'm very skeptical that this change will have a significant impact on the state of things. I also find it pretty misleading that Blizzard's post seems to blame addons for making it easy to post large numbers of single stacks. In reality, you can post large numbers of auctions faster with the default UI than with Auctioneer, Auctionator, or TSM. Looking at TSM specifically, there are 2 ways to post large quantities of single-stacks. You can setup an Auctioning operation to do so, but the post cap is limited to 200 (where there are regularly people posting way more than that), or you can do it via the Shopping part of the addon in a very similar way to what you can do with the default UI (enter a stack size of 1 and hit a "Max" button to post as many stacks as possible, then wait an hour for it all to post). Auctionator and Auctioneer offer similar methods to what I described as far as I remember.
If Blizzard wants to blame addons, they could argue that addons are making a lot more queries against the AH than people without addons would and this strain on the server is more than they can handle. I would certainly believe this to be the case. Unfortunately, they don't have any good quick options for fixing this, since it sounds like they can't (or won't) scale their servers to meet the demand, and the code is too much of a mess to easily optimize. So, this is the change they came up with to try. If I were in their shoes, and my assumption about addon queries causing the heavy load is correct, I would work with addon developers on some new APIs which put less strain on the servers, possibly by allowing more server-side filtering, or providing data in larger batches, depending on where the bottle-neck is (I can only guess).
You've to consider the percentage of overall queries and query return time for players searching the AH as a whole. This is a performance issue, not a size issue. And so number of auctions are poor metrics to use.
If 70% of all searches done on the actual AH are for tradeskill mats and half of those (per your data for Tich) are stacks of 1, that's a massive performance drain for a cheap tactic.
This is my biggest pain point on the AH. Every day. I use a very light addon, Auctionator, as I can always count on it to work - posting a bunch of 1 stacks is trivial. Searching the AH is painful, even tho browing them isn't.
I really hope you guys actually take some of these suggestions and create an updated AH UI in a relatively decent amount of time. This honestly should have been done a long time ago. And you raising the AH cut during a deflating economy due to you overcorrecting by pulling 90% of the non AH gold making ability out, combined with the mini garrison effect of the shredder flooding the trade goods market with mats... I cant see this expansion as being anything other than a disaster for the wow economy.
You are punishing all the players of this game for a few problem players and your slacking. You are taking shortcuts by copy and pasting from expansion to expansion and pumping out very few new ideas. Such as this craptastic command table we've had for 3 expansions straight now. With so much reusing of content, how have you not had time to pump out an update to something that needs it so badly?
You are punishing all the players of this game for a few problem players and your slacking. You are taking shortcuts by copy and pasting from expansion to expansion and pumping out very few new ideas. Such as this craptastic command table we've had for 3 expansions straight now. With so much reusing of content, how have you not had time to pump out an update to something that needs it so badly?
08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Ythisensas we’re also working to broadly improve the default Auction House in the future.
If you are going to improve it, add in a the ability for players to put up buy orders, bid/ask, call it what you will. So for example, Lets say there are 50 pages of gold ore in various prices from 10 gold to 1000 gold each, but the average price is about 10 gold for 1 piece of ore. I put up a buy order for 200 ore at 8 gold each, with a minimum order buy of 1. So you can sell me 1 ore, or you can sell me all 200 at 8 gold each. Once the order is filled, it goes away. Both the gold for the order and any deposits are taken at that time I place the buy order.
Options for placing the order would be the item name, how many I want to buy, the price, and minimum order sell size. So you could say you wanted to buy 200 ore, but in order to sell to me, you have to sell a minimum of 50 at a time, or perhaps all 200 at a time. Or lets say you want a particular pet or weapon - that would be 1 and 1. You want one item with a minimum sell size of one, unless of course you wanted to buy 20 or 50 of them and resell.
The benefit is that sellers can come and sell directly to the buyer, and get their money right then. Buyers benefit by lower prices, and of course competition drives down prices so there will be competition between who has the lowest sell orders on the market, and those who can wait a bit for their items can save a few $$. Several other MMOs have this feature, so this is nothing new and it works quite well, and lets the market dictate the price as right now WOW's market is a bit one-sided, but with both buy and sell orders, you have some market control to keep prices in check.
It seems like an easier solution would just be to change the default listing filter. List the largest stacks first and work down to single stacks. Im willing to be there would be very few single stacks if they were last.
One possible temporary fix would be to have an option to filter your search by stack size, much like the minimum/maximum level. If I want to search for a minimum of 5, and/or a maximum of 10...there should be a place to add those quantities!
There are many perspectives to keep in mind and Blizzard needs to be careful changing a fundamental system in the game. The market is made up of both buyers AND sellers.
Changing to a market order system means the existing AH had to cease to exist. For a few days/weeks till all the orders expire then the bugs squishing can start. Those with goods early will make a huge amount of gold because resetting the entire AH means everything will be a million gold per item.
Buyers either care about price or quantity. I love the idea of letting people select a minimum stack size in their query, as a seller I'll make a whole lot more gold. As a price buyer I like the 1 stacks. Those who want to pay me an extra 10k gold for a 200 stack thank you.
As mentioned the real fix is an query api change that allows for larger returns of data. Quicker searches will help.
But even with all this slowness the existing system is very very robust. It's not losing a single item or buyer/seller pair on any realm with hundreds of thousands of items. The system won't sell a sky golem for 30g unless a person puts it in for that amount.
Changing to a market order system means the existing AH had to cease to exist. For a few days/weeks till all the orders expire then the bugs squishing can start. Those with goods early will make a huge amount of gold because resetting the entire AH means everything will be a million gold per item.
Buyers either care about price or quantity. I love the idea of letting people select a minimum stack size in their query, as a seller I'll make a whole lot more gold. As a price buyer I like the 1 stacks. Those who want to pay me an extra 10k gold for a 200 stack thank you.
As mentioned the real fix is an query api change that allows for larger returns of data. Quicker searches will help.
But even with all this slowness the existing system is very very robust. It's not losing a single item or buyer/seller pair on any realm with hundreds of thousands of items. The system won't sell a sky golem for 30g unless a person puts it in for that amount.
Are people forgetting that the default UI allows the posting of single stack items now?
Picture for reference: https://puu.sh/BlI7H/f4f53dc6c1.png
Blaming an addon for the ability to post single stack items is ridiculous and the core of the problem needs to be addressed.
Why are stack sizes even limiting the usage of the auction house. If I list an item for 2g per unit then anyone should be able to buy one, two, twenty or all of it for 2g per unit with the click of a button.
Picture for reference: https://puu.sh/BlI7H/f4f53dc6c1.png
Blaming an addon for the ability to post single stack items is ridiculous and the core of the problem needs to be addressed.
Why are stack sizes even limiting the usage of the auction house. If I list an item for 2g per unit then anyone should be able to buy one, two, twenty or all of it for 2g per unit with the click of a button.
08/27/2018 05:50 PMPosted by ButterknivesThis doesn't solve anything because people who post thousands of stacks of 1 are too stupid to even notice the listing fee. Sorry, ban me if you like, but it's the truth.
Exactly. For those of us who DO pay attention to deposit prices because we’re not spammers, AH trolls or flatout WoW rich, this will impact us greatly. Even those of us who stack up mats to 200 and then sell in stacks of 25, 50 or 100 (because let’s face it, nine times out of ten, you don’t need a full stack of 200 of something if you’re going on the AH to get mats), it may hurt us. Whereas you have these AH trolls who think posting 200 stacks of 1 will tire people of clicking through pages to get larger stacks are a) careless and don’t give a flip about deposit prices, b) are too motivated and KNOW their one stacks will sell, the deposit incentive won’t really effect them. So while this is a good faith effort, I don’t expect to see much to change in the AH default. And those of us playing by the rules and posting larger stacks will continue to do the math and post for a lower price to show up before these spammy postings (provided you choose the option to filter price lowest to highest).
08/27/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Dirkalock08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by YthisensIn either case, the deposit is returned to the seller if the item sells. Successful auctions aren’t affected by this change.
So nothing will change then?
Just the increased price for deposits. It'll deter people from making so many small stacks.
I am not going to come back to this thread to respond...
PSA: However, I just wanted to say that I've had a LARGE amount of success posting larger stacks SIMPLY DUE TO the fact that the Auction House is taking SO LONG to load.
People aren't buying single stacks as much right now because it takes forever-and-a-day for one transaction to be processed.
Just my two cents. Post large stacks for now and help alleviate the problem. You'll be glad you did (can post higher than 1 stack people and still sell your stuff before them).
PSA: However, I just wanted to say that I've had a LARGE amount of success posting larger stacks SIMPLY DUE TO the fact that the Auction House is taking SO LONG to load.
People aren't buying single stacks as much right now because it takes forever-and-a-day for one transaction to be processed.
Just my two cents. Post large stacks for now and help alleviate the problem. You'll be glad you did (can post higher than 1 stack people and still sell your stuff before them).
08/27/2018 07:21 PMPosted by MuphridThis isn't going to solve much of anything.
Instead, there should be a single visible price (the lowest price) for each commodity, and buyers can specify how much they want to buy and be quoted for the lowest price of an order that can fulfill that order.
Example: Alice is selling 5 Flask of the Currents for 2000 ea. Bob is selling 7 Flask of the Currents for 2150g ea. Charlie is selling 4 Flask of the Currents for 2300g ea.
David is looking to buy 6 Flask of the Currents. When he opens the AH, he is quoted one value: the price of Flask of the Currents is 2000g each. When he tries to buy 6 of them, the game picks the cheapest 6 flasks on the market. That's 5 of Alice's and 1 of Bob's. David is shown the total of 12,150g (2025g ea.) for 6 flasks. If he accepts, then he owns 6 flasks, Alice has no more flasks on the market, and Bob has 1 less.
Perhaps Blizzard is skittish about doing so much of this market processing on their end, but with all of us only able to query the AH for 1 page at a time, I dare say that it would save them a lot more in terms of market queries we're making.
Sounds good!
Like the steam marketplace.
08/27/2018 07:31 PMPosted by AlyssandriWhy not give the buyer the option to search by stack size.
Good feature, but doesn't address the issue.
How bout putting a limit on the same items posted to the auction house.
Or maybe a filter to reduce the multiple post of the same item by the same player to 1 post and stating that they have multiple items (giving a quantity number) asking would you like to see them.
In addition to charging more to post the items. This way I can choose not to buy them to cause them to lose money. I rather pay an extra silver or two just not to buy off a selfish lister of single items I have to wade through to find something.
This also applies to multiple stacks. Sort of like supporting the local shops instead of the be chain stores.
Or maybe a filter to reduce the multiple post of the same item by the same player to 1 post and stating that they have multiple items (giving a quantity number) asking would you like to see them.
In addition to charging more to post the items. This way I can choose not to buy them to cause them to lose money. I rather pay an extra silver or two just not to buy off a selfish lister of single items I have to wade through to find something.
This also applies to multiple stacks. Sort of like supporting the local shops instead of the be chain stores.
08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Ythisens
• Now imagine an additional 20% deposit added to the listing fee per auction. With an asking price of 10g each, that raises the deposit by 2g per stack. In the case of 1 stack of 200 linen, the total buyout price is 2000g, and the new deposit is 2g1s. In the case of 200 individual stacks, the new deposit of an additional 2g per stack brings the total deposit up to 402g.
[/quote]
Another idea as an alternative is add a check box to the search for searching for stacks only, much like the existing check box for usable by character. This in turn when checked would only return results on items in stacks of more than one. And to further improve this option and an input box to search only for stacks of however much the user enters.
For example:
Stacks only (10)
*returns results only listed in stacks of 10
Or
Stacks only (28)
*returns results only listed in stacks of 28
In my opinion this would be much more feasible to the public and increase usability, and also not upset the community by increasing deposits, refundable or not, when the idea behind the auction house platform is to strategically make money and problem free item purchasing.
08/27/2018 07:47 PMPosted by ThreielIf you're going to do this, I think it's worth looking into an option to purchase partial stacks. Sure the pages and pages of 1 stacks is super annoying. But if you have an addon, it's not that difficult to manage and is really helpful at purchasing the exact amounts of mats you want to buy.
For example if I only need 10 cloths for a recipe but there are only stacks of 100 or 200 at 10g a piece, that's a lot of gold I'm wasting just because default AH UI can't handle single stacks well.
AH Addons are the problem,.