two games that people already pointed out that have working AH.. Wildstar and Guildwars 2 ... Get ya crap together blizzard and do something like them.
As many already said your current fix is very laughable. .I lowkey poke around the AH and even I know its laughable.
Look we all know that folks who post 1 of something by the 1000's are trying to interfere with the game function. Just ban the jerks. They do it on sub level 10 characters so that pages that are helpful like the undermine journal wont function well.
If the goal of these sellers is basically griefing the game then treat them as such. There's NO good reason to post 1000 of something one at a time except to cause interference with the game.
Also make them be at least level 20 to use the AH so we can track the jerks.
If the goal of these sellers is basically griefing the game then treat them as such. There's NO good reason to post 1000 of something one at a time except to cause interference with the game.
Also make them be at least level 20 to use the AH so we can track the jerks.
2 Likes
I would suggest that the simplest solution would be to limit the number of 1 stacks of mats someone can post. So, say, they can't post more than 5 1-stacks of each type of 200-stack crafting mats (make it the same for 5 and 10 stacks). That way, if someone has 1 or 2 mats they just want to offload they won't be affected, and other items that obviously only can be stacked for 1 also won't be affected. It's also not an absolute minimum per player/character.
So, I have 4 bits of 3 different types of leather, I could post all of those as 1 stacks... but I couldn't post, say, 200 1-stacks of each. And I can't post any new 1-stack stacks of the same type until 1 sells. [Personally I refuse to post fewer than 20-stacks of current mats on the AH with my banker, but scrolling through.... yeesh].
I agree that w/o player support [boycotting 1-stack posters] that the gold increase is pointless. I disagree that not giving people back their deposits even if 1-stacks sell is a good idea as that would inordinately affect poor chars/new players or chars that just happened to get a couple of bits of leather or ore or whatever in a fishing crate that they'll never otherwise use.
So, I have 4 bits of 3 different types of leather, I could post all of those as 1 stacks... but I couldn't post, say, 200 1-stacks of each. And I can't post any new 1-stack stacks of the same type until 1 sells. [Personally I refuse to post fewer than 20-stacks of current mats on the AH with my banker, but scrolling through.... yeesh].
I agree that w/o player support [boycotting 1-stack posters] that the gold increase is pointless. I disagree that not giving people back their deposits even if 1-stacks sell is a good idea as that would inordinately affect poor chars/new players or chars that just happened to get a couple of bits of leather or ore or whatever in a fishing crate that they'll never otherwise use.
08/27/2018 05:50 PMPosted by ButterknivesThis doesn't solve anything because people who post thousands of stacks of 1 are too stupid to even notice the listing fee. Sorry, ban me if you like, but it's the truth.
08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by YthisensNow imagine an additional 20% deposit added to the listing fee per auction. With an asking price of 10g each, that raises the deposit by 2g per stack. In the case of 1 stack of 200 linen, the total buyout price is 2000g, and the new deposit is 2g1s. In the case of 200 individual stacks, the new deposit of an additional 2g per stack brings the total deposit up to 402g.
Now imagine hitting enter by accidentally typing too many zeroes and you need to cancel.
enjoy that 10k deposit for a 500g item you added 2 zeros by accident for.
Please put an upper limit. This is extremely unforgiving to new people
I'm the author of TSM, and I thought it'd be interesting to look at real data on this. So, I downloaded a dump of the entire AH my realm, US-Tichdronius (using Blizzard's API). This realm is the 2nd biggest US realm according to realmpop.com and the 8th highest in terms of auctions posted at the time of me writing this (according to TSM's data). Here is what I found.
In this auction dump that I used, there are a total of 147194 auctions.
If we go super-broad, and look at all items which fall under the "Trade Goods" category on the AH (regardless of expansion), there are 62355 total auctions, with 31235 single stacks. Of those single stack auctions, 18635 are posted by sellers with more than 20 auctions of the item posted.
If we take a look at BfA crafting materials (this Wowhead query: https://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=166:217;8:1;0:0) specifically, this brings us down to 34703 auctions in total, with 19070 single stacks. Of those single stack auctions, 13738 are posted by sellers with more than 20 auctions of the item posted.
So, if we assume Blizzard is specifically targeting BfA crafting materials with this change, at best, this will result in roughly a 10% decrease in the total number of auctions posted. Now, you could argue that there is a compound effect where less pages worth of items means addons make less queries to Blizzard's servers. I don't personally believe that effect is very significant in this case, as most players aren't spending a significant amount of time at the AH using addons (like TSM) which search through every single page of crafting materials. I'd guess that even those who use TSM are spending the majority of their AH time searching for items which aren't BfA crafting materials (i.e. they are posting crafted items, or sniping, or shopping for transmog). It would be nice if we had more data to back up my assumptions here, but alas it's just an educated guess.
I'm very skeptical that this change will have a significant impact on the state of things. I also find it pretty misleading that Blizzard's post seems to blame addons for making it easy to post large numbers of single stacks. In reality, you can post large numbers of auctions faster with the default UI than with Auctioneer, Auctionator, or TSM. Looking at TSM specifically, there are 2 ways to post large quantities of single-stacks. You can setup an Auctioning operation to do so, but the post cap is limited to 200 (where there are regularly people posting way more than that), or you can do it via the Shopping part of the addon in a very similar way to what you can do with the default UI (enter a stack size of 1 and hit a "Max" button to post as many stacks as possible, then wait an hour for it all to post). Auctionator and Auctioneer offer similar methods to what I described as far as I remember.
If Blizzard wants to blame addons, they could argue that addons are making a lot more queries against the AH than people without addons would and this strain on the server is more than they can handle. I would certainly believe this to be the case. Unfortunately, they don't have any good quick options for fixing this, since it sounds like they can't (or won't) scale their servers to meet the demand, and the code is too much of a mess to easily optimize. So, this is the change they came up with to try. If I were in their shoes, and my assumption about addon queries causing the heavy load is correct, I would work with addon developers on some new APIs which put less strain on the servers, possibly by allowing more server-side filtering, or providing data in larger batches, depending on where the bottle-neck is (I can only guess).
In this auction dump that I used, there are a total of 147194 auctions.
If we go super-broad, and look at all items which fall under the "Trade Goods" category on the AH (regardless of expansion), there are 62355 total auctions, with 31235 single stacks. Of those single stack auctions, 18635 are posted by sellers with more than 20 auctions of the item posted.
If we take a look at BfA crafting materials (this Wowhead query: https://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=166:217;8:1;0:0) specifically, this brings us down to 34703 auctions in total, with 19070 single stacks. Of those single stack auctions, 13738 are posted by sellers with more than 20 auctions of the item posted.
So, if we assume Blizzard is specifically targeting BfA crafting materials with this change, at best, this will result in roughly a 10% decrease in the total number of auctions posted. Now, you could argue that there is a compound effect where less pages worth of items means addons make less queries to Blizzard's servers. I don't personally believe that effect is very significant in this case, as most players aren't spending a significant amount of time at the AH using addons (like TSM) which search through every single page of crafting materials. I'd guess that even those who use TSM are spending the majority of their AH time searching for items which aren't BfA crafting materials (i.e. they are posting crafted items, or sniping, or shopping for transmog). It would be nice if we had more data to back up my assumptions here, but alas it's just an educated guess.
I'm very skeptical that this change will have a significant impact on the state of things. I also find it pretty misleading that Blizzard's post seems to blame addons for making it easy to post large numbers of single stacks. In reality, you can post large numbers of auctions faster with the default UI than with Auctioneer, Auctionator, or TSM. Looking at TSM specifically, there are 2 ways to post large quantities of single-stacks. You can setup an Auctioning operation to do so, but the post cap is limited to 200 (where there are regularly people posting way more than that), or you can do it via the Shopping part of the addon in a very similar way to what you can do with the default UI (enter a stack size of 1 and hit a "Max" button to post as many stacks as possible, then wait an hour for it all to post). Auctionator and Auctioneer offer similar methods to what I described as far as I remember.
If Blizzard wants to blame addons, they could argue that addons are making a lot more queries against the AH than people without addons would and this strain on the server is more than they can handle. I would certainly believe this to be the case. Unfortunately, they don't have any good quick options for fixing this, since it sounds like they can't (or won't) scale their servers to meet the demand, and the code is too much of a mess to easily optimize. So, this is the change they came up with to try. If I were in their shoes, and my assumption about addon queries causing the heavy load is correct, I would work with addon developers on some new APIs which put less strain on the servers, possibly by allowing more server-side filtering, or providing data in larger batches, depending on where the bottle-neck is (I can only guess).
A preferable solution would be to do away with the concept of stacks in the AH, at least in terms of trade commodities.
Instead of listing commodities by stacks sold by a player, it should be "player has this much of [commodity] to offer @ [price]". For example, Player X lists [herb] at 20g each. Player X has 369 x [herb] listed on the AH (all @ 20g each). Player Y buys 150 x [herb] for a total of 3000g. Player X now has 181 x [herb] on the AH.
If Player X wants to decrease or increase the price of their commodity, they do so for all of that commodity. The idea of a vendor selling a single herb for 5g2s and another of the same herb for 7g1s27c (let alone 20 stacks consisting a single identical herb at the same price) is just stupid. This is clearly a tactic to distort the market and confuse buyers and sellers about the market price of a commodity.
To avoid people posting single items on alts to circumvent this approach, vendors could be restricted to one per account.
I understand that addons make buying commodities a lot easier in terms of being able to digest information. With this in mind, it's kind of woeful how little change the AH interface and system has seen over the years.
Instead of listing commodities by stacks sold by a player, it should be "player has this much of [commodity] to offer @ [price]". For example, Player X lists [herb] at 20g each. Player X has 369 x [herb] listed on the AH (all @ 20g each). Player Y buys 150 x [herb] for a total of 3000g. Player X now has 181 x [herb] on the AH.
If Player X wants to decrease or increase the price of their commodity, they do so for all of that commodity. The idea of a vendor selling a single herb for 5g2s and another of the same herb for 7g1s27c (let alone 20 stacks consisting a single identical herb at the same price) is just stupid. This is clearly a tactic to distort the market and confuse buyers and sellers about the market price of a commodity.
To avoid people posting single items on alts to circumvent this approach, vendors could be restricted to one per account.
I understand that addons make buying commodities a lot easier in terms of being able to digest information. With this in mind, it's kind of woeful how little change the AH interface and system has seen over the years.
With as bad as the AH is on area 52 I can only hope the devs get more strict with people spamming it... I would get a time-out if I spammed "wts 1 platinum ore!" 200 times in an hour, I think these single-stackers should just have their hundreds to thousands of stacks automatically returned and get a temporary ban from using the AH with a warning letter not to spam.
08/27/2018 06:02 PMPosted by ManziniHow about we bring back the mobile auction house? You know make the armory app valuable again? Or just an actual auction house app.
So much this.
The incentive should be bigger like you only get a refund when selling full stacks or the threat of death of them and their entire bloodline to ensure that their filthy single stack selling genetics are never passed on.
I rank people who list items in stacks of one along with people who take up two parking spaces and commit mass genocide etc. These people are eroding our society and we need to act, more then a mere loss of money for a short period, that will not stop them.
Has anyone at Blizzard actually tried to use the auction house at the moment it so slow, good luck even trying to find a stack of 200 even if your willing to pay more for stacks of 200 because they are buried somewhere in the middle of 50 pages of god damn 1 stack auctions, I have stopped using it as it's almost useless takes up to 10 minutes sometimes just to do a search and you can thank your 1 stackers for that.
Cut off their hands so they can never game again just to be safe.
I rank people who list items in stacks of one along with people who take up two parking spaces and commit mass genocide etc. These people are eroding our society and we need to act, more then a mere loss of money for a short period, that will not stop them.
Has anyone at Blizzard actually tried to use the auction house at the moment it so slow, good luck even trying to find a stack of 200 even if your willing to pay more for stacks of 200 because they are buried somewhere in the middle of 50 pages of god damn 1 stack auctions, I have stopped using it as it's almost useless takes up to 10 minutes sometimes just to do a search and you can thank your 1 stackers for that.
Cut off their hands so they can never game again just to be safe.
Blizzard should allow players to list Orders in the AH
For example I would create an Order for "500 Monelite Ore for 12,500gp" and list the order on the AH. Once I list the Order 12,500gp would be removed from my gold balance.
A player would accept the Order from within the AH UI, which would instantly remove 500 Monelite Ore from their inventory or bank, and mail it to me, and credit the player 12,500gp.
This can be done for crafting material, crafted gear, anything basically
For example I would create an Order for "500 Monelite Ore for 12,500gp" and list the order on the AH. Once I list the Order 12,500gp would be removed from my gold balance.
A player would accept the Order from within the AH UI, which would instantly remove 500 Monelite Ore from their inventory or bank, and mail it to me, and credit the player 12,500gp.
This can be done for crafting material, crafted gear, anything basically
Don't return the deposit fee. I think what you guys are considering is great, with the exception of the return, which I realize already happens. Remove the return. Call it a listing fee or some such thing or you could remove the taxes already there and replace it with this system.
08/28/2018 01:05 AMPosted by IyosinDon't return the deposit fee. I think what you guys are considering is great, with the exception of the return, which I realize already happens. Remove the return. Call it a listing fee or some such thing or you could remove the taxes already there and replace it with this system.
But if you list a full stack you get a refund or a 50% refund for being efficient.
So I had made this post about this on the 21st Aug 2016...
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748636568?page=1
It was followed up by a response in a Q&A during WoD which unfortunately I can not find the source atm. However it read something similar to "We are working on updating the auction house in a future expansion".
So I am guessing much like the Appear Offline feature implemented into the bnet app we will get AH update around 2025.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748636568?page=1
It was followed up by a response in a Q&A during WoD which unfortunately I can not find the source atm. However it read something similar to "We are working on updating the auction house in a future expansion".
So I am guessing much like the Appear Offline feature implemented into the bnet app we will get AH update around 2025.
There should be no fee changes but instead make it so for common raw mats that you have to post in stacks of 5 or higher. Your current idea will hurt a lot of people because most of the time people don't want 200 ore, they only need 10 or 20 or whatever, and now people are basically being forced into stacks of 200 only.
08/27/2018 05:50 PMPosted by ButterknivesThis doesn't solve anything because people who post thousands of stacks of 1 are too stupid to even notice the listing fee. Sorry, ban me if you like, but it's the truth.
Not sure why people post one of each, but I agree this added deposits doesn’t help anything as they will get the money back.
Make it NON refundable!
A long term part of a solution could be going back to the old school method of having finite resources instead of abundant for the next xpac. Both scrapping and excess redundant non upgrade items peeps receive from world quests are half the reason the AH is filled with so much crap.
Another solution could be to have two databases for the AH, one for legacy items, one of current xpac, so the user would have to choose a "legacy" search of sorts to find old items.
Another solution could be to have two databases for the AH, one for legacy items, one of current xpac, so the user would have to choose a "legacy" search of sorts to find old items.
08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Ythisensimagine an additional 20% deposit added to the listing fee per auction. With an asking price of 10g each, that raises the deposit by 2g per stack. In the case of 1 stack of 200 linen, the total buyout price is 2000g, and the new deposit is 2g1s. In the case of 200 individual stacks, the new deposit of an additional 2g per stack brings the total deposit up to 402g.
Not enough.
You guys have to get the total deposit to at least 25% of the total stack price for players to notice because the addons they use (especially TSM) are set to sell single items, not stacks. If the deposit value isn't high enough to notice in their backpacks, they won't change their behavior.
Hence, if you post 200 individual linen for 10g each you should have to deposit a minimum of 500g compared to the 2g1s of one stack of 200.
And even then it might not even matter because TSM is almost fully automated by default. The moment a big player raises their price to counter the larger deposit fee, everyone else will because the database will have been updated and because people just let the addon do everything for them.
I don't post single stacks, but I post things in stacks of 5 since it correlates to prospecting and inscription, and the biggest I'll go is a stack of 20. Those stack of 5s always sell faster than when I post in stacks of 20. People crafting in bulk will obviously buy larger quantities, and use addons to buy stacks the easiest way possible. However people just finishing up a single craft don't want to buy a stack of 20 or 200. A better solution is to, and I know this is a lot to ask 8 years after it's release, but steal from Guild Wars 2. GW2 allowed you to post your stack of 200 or whatever, and the buyer could buy however many they wanted, no restrictions on stack size. Do that. Don't put a bandaid on the gaping wound and tell us to ignore of the wet red stuff on the ground.
1 Like
Assuming the change is to prevent the spam of a single item so others can be seen. If that’s the case, here’s a solution imo ...
You have two routes. You can either A, change the AH UI or B, keep it the same.
When purchasing an item, you still would have to search for your needs as usual. When the item is found and you’re wanting to begin buying your needs, there’s another option next to this item. This option allows the player to choose the amount and or quantity of which the player desires.
Once this option has been chosen, the window will refresh, revealing all of the auctions that other players have listed for that amount. When the player originally created the auction, it would still be the same process that were all used to. So, the only change that would happen is on the buyers end on how the item is being purchased.
This is just a thought and something that is simplified instead of completely changing the system of currency.
You have two routes. You can either A, change the AH UI or B, keep it the same.
When purchasing an item, you still would have to search for your needs as usual. When the item is found and you’re wanting to begin buying your needs, there’s another option next to this item. This option allows the player to choose the amount and or quantity of which the player desires.
Once this option has been chosen, the window will refresh, revealing all of the auctions that other players have listed for that amount. When the player originally created the auction, it would still be the same process that were all used to. So, the only change that would happen is on the buyers end on how the item is being purchased.
This is just a thought and something that is simplified instead of completely changing the system of currency.
I think this change should not be implemented in this way, it is an inelegant solution to the auction house that has not grown beyond the original layout and functionality.
Players that use addons to list 200 stacks of 1 cloth may be the bane of those who want to buy a stack of 20 cloth but it seems this change punishes those who do not have a full stack to sell.
I don’t have a collection profession so if I randomly pick up some ore when killing an elemental how long should I hold it in my bags/bank? Should I just vendor it or hope that eventually I will have enough luck to collect enough for a stack?
what would be the best outcome for me? Should I sell the mats to a vendor as it is unlikely that I will gather enough ore to make a full stack with any certainly? Or should I just keep it in my bags/bank utill
Further I know that when I only need 1 - 5 ingredients I would rather buy single items than having to buy a stack, and the extra mats that I dont need I will re-list and then be hit extra for not selling a full stack.
A better solution would be to allow us to enter a minimum stack size for those that do not want to click each item individually, or better still allow us to select multiple items from the list using a check box beside each listing we want and then hit the buy button to buy all the listed items in one go.
You could make the buy all action protected so addons could not automate the process but that is the reason players complain about stack sizes, not because they have a moral aversion to buying single stacks or they feel that undercutting is a dishonourable tactic; it is purely because we have to buy them one click at a time.
Players that use addons to list 200 stacks of 1 cloth may be the bane of those who want to buy a stack of 20 cloth but it seems this change punishes those who do not have a full stack to sell.
I don’t have a collection profession so if I randomly pick up some ore when killing an elemental how long should I hold it in my bags/bank? Should I just vendor it or hope that eventually I will have enough luck to collect enough for a stack?
what would be the best outcome for me? Should I sell the mats to a vendor as it is unlikely that I will gather enough ore to make a full stack with any certainly? Or should I just keep it in my bags/bank utill
Further I know that when I only need 1 - 5 ingredients I would rather buy single items than having to buy a stack, and the extra mats that I dont need I will re-list and then be hit extra for not selling a full stack.
A better solution would be to allow us to enter a minimum stack size for those that do not want to click each item individually, or better still allow us to select multiple items from the list using a check box beside each listing we want and then hit the buy button to buy all the listed items in one go.
You could make the buy all action protected so addons could not automate the process but that is the reason players complain about stack sizes, not because they have a moral aversion to buying single stacks or they feel that undercutting is a dishonourable tactic; it is purely because we have to buy them one click at a time.
2 Likes