You should probably read the thread before you start commenting on it.
The fact is that while pvp is different you can use a sim to find out which secondary stat will generally provide more benefit that the others.
If you disagree then show me the math. Show me why it specifically wont work until then why should anyone belive you?
Look guys I appreciate the pro human stance you have taken on this post. I really do but you going to have to bow down to our AI overlords on this one.
Burden of proof falls to you since it’s your claim. Show us the math on how Mastery is more beneficial than Haste in PvP
Wasn’t my claim sims are known to work. PVE champions are winning across the PVP spectrum right now
Then why aren’t the top rated Rogues running “your” sim?
they are. Look guys im kind of trolling you but kind of not.
These sims are not perfect, but they really can tell you which second stat will make which skill it harder, etc. They are quite good now adays.
(You can even sim convenet choices in Raidbots)
You can’t realistically sim pvp because the gameplay is very dynamic. The closest sim you can use is patchwork sim but the stat weights will be different given crit/vers have differing value in pvp. So any “math” being suggested here is unlikely to be accurate. So your stat weight values other than vers is not accurate, nor is there even a need to really sim for pvp. IMO any sin rogue that stacks vers will do fine in pvp, 2nd stat ideally should be haste since that is the best ST stats in pve sim, but if you do the meme damage teamfight build in RBGs i can see mastery being better.
i get that sims arent great for pvp, but i do think they can help give your more data in the case that one seond stat - becomes more valube than another after a certain point.
Like you have to make some conversion with Crit and versa but otherwise it can give you some usefull info.
But yeah I gotach
There’s your mistake. You thought.
Sims arent worth doing in pvp for the reasons already stated.
I highly doubt you’re trolling because you seem to actually believe the ignorance you stated.
yeah i troll a bit but i also disagree and will continue to until someone shows me a mathematical reason why it wont work.
I do think our opinions on this as a community are a little dated and inaccurate. Yes its true.
You don’t need math to know that sims won’t work.
2: mastery is already one of the worst stats in pve.
3: vers haste has already been addressed as to why it’s better.
You can disagree all you want too but it won’t make you any less wrong.
I feel like this Ghostmorne character, is the type of person who would try to tell Tom Brady how to properly throw a football.
Sims don’t work because the purpose of a sim is to determine which variables provide the highest damage output over whatever parameters you enter against a computer opponent with a predetermined set of possible circumstances. Human beings are not blocks of code, and your goal in PVP is not always to do the most damage over a 3, 4 or 5-minute fight, it’s to react and to apply appropriate burst pressure on specific targets in short windows while accounting for ways they can limit that burst capability via crowd control and defensives. You cannot model a sim around human behavior, and even if you could, a) raidbots isn’t built to do it and b) you would need a set of circumstances far, far broader than it provides, for every possible permutation of class, spec, talent choice, PVP talent choice, opening sequence, and random factors to account for the unpredictability of humans making choices.
A raid boss is never going to CC you, kite you around a pillar or call their partner from across the way to blow CDs on you when they have you stunned. As a damage-dealing class you are never going to be weighting the relative usefulness of the mitigation provided by a stat like vers in a PVE environment, as least not for as long as there are still healers in the game.
Using a sim to determine the best thing to do in PVP is like using a math textbook to learn how to do brain surgery.
Step one. Inflate football.
More like using a math text book to learn how to do statistics. It’s a great tool, when used properly. I think people don’t know you can program sims to do more than just be a stationary fight.
It’s still not going to change vers/haste being the best so it doesn’t really matter.
He isn’t wrong that mastery is better than crit in pvp since crit damage is reduced. But that’s as far as I’d agree with him.
The reason I think haste is better than mastery for assassin because of the need to kill things at the right time such as totems, NF pod, target swap. Mastery may help if you’re killing the same target, but when you have to swap and you got no energy to do it, then you’re ineffective. This is on top of the need to feint, kidney, sap and all that before your opponent has time to react. Having the haste to do it at the right time is much more valuable than mastery. Also, if you have less haste than your opponent, provided equal skill and reaction time, the person with more is always gonna get their skills off first. At the end, well placed damage is better than constant damage. I think this is easy to understand. You could say after a certain amount of haste, mastery may become better because you got enough energy to do all that I mentioned. But I don’t know at what point that’d be. I think a sim won’t tell you that as well. The only way to tell is if you do a statistical analysis of win rate, arena rating, player stats. But even that will depend heavily on play style of individuals. Meaning it’s impossible to know.
You don’t need to go crazy with haste in PVP with Assassination.
The first season warps player expectations for PVP and what stats are needed. By next season you are not going to keep stacking haste in PVP for a variety of reasons.
First the new diminishing returns soft caps and also because haste doesn’t keep up with mastery and versa in PVP environments as better gear comes along with the second, third and fourth seasons respectively.
I mostly just took whatever the vault gave me and it worked out okay. A handful of my pieces aren’t haste but there’s not much I can do about it with the conquest cap. I’m no where near the first DR, does it start at 25%?
30% is when it starts to kick in
The mastery bonus just seems like it was rushed since it overlaps with haste. It’d be nice if mastery did something unique for the spec, outlaw style.