Hello!
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/smvy9v/ashtongue_talisman_not_working_as_intended/ Reddit thread
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/ashtongue-talisman-not-working-as-intended/340055 Original thread
The Mage trinket ‘Ashtongue Talisman of Insight’ (Item ID: 32488) seems to not work as intended. While spamming arcane blast the proc of this trinket does not affect the consecutive spellqueued cast.
Log confirming this behaviour(viewable on warcraftlogs):
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AWrzdgPfZNyQ9p7v
Youtube Video from OG TBC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmUVs3VJn1w
In this youtube video there is evidence of it affecting consecutive arcane blasts.
At 3:59, for example, a 2.5 second cast time Arcane Blast is cast that procs the buff ‘Insight of the Ashtongue’. The following cast is a 2.0 second cast time arcane blast, so with 1 stack of the Arcane Blast debuff up (0.3 seconds cast time reduction) the only haste buff that could result in a 2.0 second cast time is the before mentioned proc from the trinket in question.
The game is different now with spellqueue actually being a thing but I am certain this trinkets current behaviour does not seem to be in line with how it was intended to function in The Burning Crusade.
The current behaviour effectively wastes 1.5 seconds of the already small 5 second proc of this trinket and makes it substantially worse.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/812641242222821376/939924692914044958/unknown.png
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Fix seed aoe cap bug while you’re at it
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yo shoutout on the crosspost, thanks for getting it on NA as well
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not really relevant. and its not bugged
Just doing due diligence to get news of this bug spread across
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No change necessary. Arcane mages need a little nerf
Post not necessary not relevant to the issue
If spamming arcane blast just macro /cqs into blast.
It removes the next qued spell and replaces it with spell in the macro in this cast arcane blast each time it is spammed without adding any delay in time to cast as it replaces in the same frame as removed. This obv alon dosent fix the issue as the cast still happens instantly after before the proc.
You can further make it a cast sequence where you got a dead spell (just a blank in the macro) for every 2nd spell so it takes two clicks to replace the arcane blast delaying the spell by a fraction of a sec so it starts casting after the proc.
You can also set your spell que to 0 and play without it if not wanting to waste the trinket this is the better methiod as dosent require you to clear your que at time arcane blast finishes or slightly before and wait a fraction of a sec.
As for if this is a bug it’s not really. The proc happens with a slight delay so as the cast happens instantly the cast is happening before the proc and as such should not get value from it. Spell que dint exist back in tbc as such everyone got a buff due to it by making rotations more snappy and less down time. The cost is things like this it’s overall a buff still and dosent need a change as end result your still more powerful than in tbc and you have the tools to use the trinket like you did back in the day by not queing spells or use said macro and get best of both worlds assuming you can time your cancels perfectly or close to it, like people did in tbc with cast timing.
It’s no different than how Druids need to turn of and turn back on spell que in order to powershift without risking being caught out of form. It’s not a bug we get caught out it’s spell que working correctly just like here just not to the result you want. As such you either use spell que and accept the result to get the advantage of spell que or you turn it off or work around it to her higher value from stuff that dosent play well with it.
Healers also had the option to do so with the bm helaing trinket the did same thing has been many other examples of the same thou most just lives with it some did the above of delaying a cast by a fraction of a sec you need 0.003 secs delay on avg as a note in order for proc to come up before the cast.
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Adding cqs to macro will significantly lower your dps unless you actually know how to use it. And even at that it’s a bandaid fix and mages would be better off using a different trinket at that point for ST dps.
The trinket diddnt behave like this in original tbc as OP identified. It was the same issue with the initial arcane blast debuff back at the start of classic. Which was fixed.
Expect mages to constantly bring this to forums especially when most players will get the trinket after 1-2 more BT clears
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It did behave like that in org tbc just players never managed to time the next cast within 0.003 secs of there last spell casting constantly. Spell que allows you to. The trinket is not working any differently spell que is allowing you to more effectively time your spells. As such the trinkets buff is correctly not applied as it has a slight delay to proc (due to needing to hit and crit first) and a cast can’t be modified after being started. If you delay your cast by a fraction of a sec the trinket works correctly just like it did in og tbc and yes in og tbc if you consistently could of cast a spell at the exact moment a cast ended the same result we are seeing would of happened.
Yes you lose dps delaying your casts by removing the spell que or using /csq. As spell queing is a rather large buff to player dps. This comes at the cost of delayed procs not working on the next cast this trinket it not the only example of it and if they cared to change it they would of in phase 1 but it’s not something that needs to be fixed so. They dint. It’s not a bug with the trinket it’s spell que working correctly and the trinket working correctly. If you want the tbc result of being able to get value on the next cast need to play like tbc and not use spell que or use a workaround. They should not be effectively buffing a trinket by removing the delay on proc in order for you to get full value to a buff you already have via spell queing.
It’s not the same as the org arcane blast debuff that is made to buff your next cast. This trinket is made to give the effect after crit and as a crit dosent happen on cast it happens slightly after cast due to travel time it’s made to have a slight delay.
Yes it means other trinkets are better for st dps. That not a issue at all in fact not a single class or spec have bis lists from og tbc that are exactly the same the game has changed with knowledge and the fact we have talent balance from sunwel patch plus spell que and other changes. Hell if you want to look at og tbc we would need to nerf this trinket a ton as in og tbc it was buffed a ton in a later patch and was rather crap at first when bt was out as haste was buffed as well as the amount of haste on it.
If you think the trinket is meant to proc a 5s haste effect from a crit to have the subsequent spell not benefit from it and therefore significantly reduce its already minimal 5s proc, than i don’t know what to say. (procs off first arcane blast, you lose more than 2s, procs at max u lose 1.5s)
There is 0 travel time on Arcane blast. once the spell has finished casting it instantly hits the boss, and this interaction is VERY SIMILAR to the mage Arcane blast in p1 bug where the subsequent spell wouldn’t benefit from the debuff that’s applied, the cast start and debuff are applying but weren’t seeing the added haste benefit, I don’t see how this instance is any different, and it is an issue with spell queuing which was not a thing in OG TBC, whether you want to argue it takes the game engine time to register a crit vs registering when an arcane blast finishes its cast may have some merit. But there is no way this is intended behavior, and it does make the trinket awful to use. I just cant understand how you believe its working as intended its just not possible to think that
Wrong, there is travel time on arcane blast its approx 0.003 secs (upwards of about 0.01 secs this number changes based on distance to mob) as you can see via logs that is the delay from time cast to hit/crit. This is also the time of the proc this time is the travel time. There is a massive diff between no travel time and a small bit of travel time. Esp in this case.
The trinket is means to proc on crit and as such it dose not work on subsequent casts cast before that crit as casts are not meant to retroactively scale to procs after the cast started.
In org tbc people did not consistently cast within that window with spell que we can. The trade of from such a buff that spell que is the travel time of spells becoming a factor and as such a trinket that procs on crit rather than on cast is lower value as it wont effect the next cast unless you adjust your cast to start after it triggers like in org tbc where there was always a slightl delay between casts.
The arcane blast debuff is a completely different thing as arcane blast outright reads on the tooltip, that each time you CAST. This means on CAST not on hit or crit the effect comes into play as such not effecting the next cast is a bug. Which is completely different than a proc correctly applying on hit/crit after the travel time of the spell which happens after a cast has started. This is more the same as the healers BM trinket that also triggers on hit/crit and still to this day even after quite a number oif bug reports no change. Showing that even after 3 phases of content and bug reports blizzard being aware of it either doesn’t find it worth fixing or they agree its not a bug. The work around exists for that trinket delay your casts to after proc or reset them if you want the procs value right away.
If you think the trinket is meant to proc a 5s haste effect from a crit to have the subsequent spell not benefit from it and therefore significantly reduce its already minimal 5s proc, than i don’t know what to say. (procs off first arcane blast, you lose more than 2s, procs at max u lose 1.5s)
Yeah we are playing on a spell queue engine that original tbc did not have and that’s what caused the initial arcane blast debuff to not behave as it was intended and guess what it was fixed.
Anyways I have no idea why you’re debating the schematics of 0.003s travel time and behaving like this is intended behaviour when it diddnt do this back in OG TBC and citing spell queue over and over again. You obviously have something against this acting as if it was intended in TBC. Also your fix is not how people should need to play the game. Anyways I’ll wait for a blue post on this someone who actually has information and not you just spouting numbers and spell queue to justify its intended behaviour.
This is clearly not how the trinket worked in TBC just like how spell queue broke the arcane blast debuff it’s breaking the trinket and most mages will get there trinket within the next 2 week’s. A blue post would go a long way to not see more confused players.
My thoughts on the matter have had exactly 0 inpact on what was said.
What I have said is the result of as mentioned the reports and action of blizzard in how they have handled the healer bm trinket among other examples from phase 1 that have not been changed. Blizzards thoughts and actions are always what matters here not the thoughts of a individual. As mentioned these types of interactions have existed with quite a number of examples since phase 1 and have not been changed. Your arcane blast debuff example as mentioned dose not fall into this type as its not a on hit/crit proc but a on cast proc a entirely different interaction.
You can wait all you want for a blue people have been since phase 1 on quite a number of posts and reports with not a single one of them having one and not a single example being changed. So wait all you want wont get you anywhere. This is one of the many interactions players don’t necessarily like but none the less not a bug that has been around since p1 and known about since phase 1 without being changed showing it as either intended or not likely to change as not a bug or not worth fixing.
Its not a schematics debate of a 0.003 sec travel time. Its a fact. 0 travel time is 0 not 0.003. Its like claiming light instantly moves vs having a speed since it moves really fast. Thats the logic of the cave man which we know is incorrect. Just like we know the earth is not flat and the sun doesn’t rotate around the earth. Also arcane blast DID have this travel time in TBC just people could not consistently cast within that time frame for it to be a issue. Spell que lets them. The trinket did not change we got buffed with spell que.
The trinket is working how it did in tbc it procs on spell hit/crit we are casting as a much faster rate due to spell que and as such are casting before the proc and spells cast before a proc do not get the value of a proc this is consistent with org tbc. If you want to get the value of the proc like in org tbc you need to slow your cast start time till after the proc.
As for losing value on a proc so? You can play around it and get full value if you wish it requires giving up on spell que or delaying your casts. You as the player are picking not to. You losing value on something since a buff was given to you that makes you better than in tbc is not a issue. You either deal with the cost of the buff or you don’t use said buff in this case spell queing. You the player have full power over being able to use the buff of spellque and losing one cast per proc or playing like tbc and not using spell que to get the procs value on the next spell via adding that small delay. The trinket is working exactly like it did in tbc.
How is it so hard for you to understand? The trinket in its current state is useless on ST dps. The trinket was not like this and all subsequent casts benefitted from the debuff. The spell queue system is affecting how this trinket interacts with current players. Therefore it is not working as it was intended and asking for a fix should not be met with your slabs of text trying to debunk every said statement and propaganda to have it viewed as intended behaviour when it’s not it’s intended behaviour from Burning Crusade. I’m sorry they diddnt change your healer trinket proc.
But to say this is behaving how it should is just wrong.
Nothing you have said do I not understand. In fact knowing why something is like how it is and knowing how long its been there + knowing about blizzards lack of action on it shows understanding of a situation. You not liking the interaction dose not make the interaction incorrect or a bug. Asking for a change would be one thing but that is not what you and the OP have done you are trying to claim its not working as intended which it is. IT works exactly how it did in og tbc and classic is made to be like og tbc so it is working as intended.
It being useless or not means exactly nothing. There are tons of items in the game considered by players as “useless”. The value of the trinket thou has exactly the same value as the trinket is doing exactly as it did in og tbc thou giving a proc on a delay. The value of the spell que system is reduced by the trinket but that system did not exist in org tbc and it being reduced in value is meaningless.
The trinket was like this in og tbc. Subsequent casts only got the proc due to players in tbc having to cast there spell themselves after a cast finished as such they did not instantly cast after there was a slight delay. As such getting the value. If you could instantly cast it it would not get the proc in og tbc this was redic hard to do to the point of near impossible. IF you do this in the current tbc it still works exactly the same. Only when spell queing is used to instantly cast the spell is this issue present. As such if you want to use the trinket like it was in og tbc you need to play like you did in og tbc and not use a qued spell. You got a buff via spell queing the game and items should NOT be changed and buffed further to match another buff given.
This IS working as intended as arcane blast dose have a travel time and as such a delay on the proc a proc is intended to not work on a spell started to be cast before the proc. Blizzard knows about this interaction and has known about it since p1 from quite a few examples, the healer trinket I mentioned being only one of them. They have picked to not address it showing they agree with it being correct or not worth changing.
Still bugged blizzard. Please fix
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