As a raid leader for a Mythic guild, 8.2.5 terrifies me

This isn’t a QQ/complaint thread to begin with - It’s just my unfiltered thougths put into a post. I’m curious if anyone else is in my position. I understand that not everyone is experiencing the below but I know this is happening to many guilds in the Oceanic/US scene.

I’m a raid leader who started a guild at the beginning of the expansion, we managed to get Cutting edge in Uldir finishing at world 1301. We had a stronger tier in BoD and finished at rank world 605. We are currently ranked 174th in the world while raiding 7 hours a week(Wed/Sun) as a 2 night guild and we’re progressing on Azshara at the moment.

Leading into 8.2, everyone in the guild was excited and they had a right to. We had a new essence system which sounded like it would shake up the meta, a way to alts to gear up quickly with the benthic system, two entirely new zones, a new m+ affix and a new raid.

However from almost the get go problems started appearing. It initially started with small complaints about the benthic system; Most of the complaints revolved around sockets and how they were handled, socketed benthic gear was beating almost every piece of gear in Palace in sims - Well, can’t win them all i guess. I personally feel like benthic gear shouldn’t be be able to roll sockets but people have the option to pay 100-200 pearls to put a socket in a piece of gear or add a secondary stat.

Next came the problem with essences. Most of the guys in the guild play this game to raid, including myself. It’s the content we enjoy unfortunately. Essences are now forcing us who have limited time to do content that we do not enjoy to be competitive in raids - But it’s fine, we only have to do it once… so suck it up and get in there.

One of the ways we manage to stay alive post raid tier is to play alts(we were doing BoD alt run last tier), do reclears and maybe do some m+ pushing. Unfortunately due to the above problems, nobody is playing alts and this scares me.

8.3 is most likely 3-4 months off after the drop of 8.2.5 which leaves us with the below scenario.

  1. Nobody wants to play alts because it’s forcing them to do content they don’t want to do.
  2. Azshara doesn’t drop a mount, so there is a very apathetic response when it comes to the idea of reclearing.
  3. Some raiders are playing and enjoy classic at the moment, because of this those who aren’t playing are feeling lonely when they do log on. We’ve already lost a few players because of this.

As someone who raids mythic, 8.2.5. brings nothing for me or my guildies. Most of this content is a one and done deal, I’m scared a lot of my guys will just stop playing. It’s already happening and the patch hasn’t dropped.

A lot of us were hoping for BoA essences but that’s not happening, so people already dropped the alts they started playing.

I don’t know, I don’t even know the point of this post. I guess I’m just upset of the thought of everything I’ve worked so hard to build being almost sabotaged by the release of classic and Blizzards insistence on wanting everyone logged in all the time.


welcome to how every non-raider feels for almost every big content patch. BFA was the oddity in that they added another 5 man dungeon for non-raid progression with mechagon. step back and list how many raid patches wow has gotten over the years, and how many content patches with five mans have come out. mechagon only barely counts, because 8 .2 was a monster of a patch that included both mech and naz along with eternal palace. expansions typically get three raid tiers, and everyone else gets a dungeon consolation prize for content, IF they even get one.

8.3 will be out in a couple of months, benthic will cease to be relevant, and all will return to it’s normally scheduled programming my dude. just tell your guild to hold on, or at least check back in when the patch drops. a break never hurt anybody.


The lack of essences being an account wide thing is a nail in coffin for this game. I have 0 desire to push higher end content (in my case mythic+ dungeons) because it’s a ton of work to get max rank for just one character. It’s crazy they made this choice despite griping about BFA being alt unfriendly from the get-go. This, combined with many other time sink features of bfa has convinced me that blizzard has 0 respect for my time as a person. I go through all that effort for essences and flying just to have them flushed down the toilet in less than a year’s time? Progress in my mmos of choice may be slow, but at least it’s permanent. I have very specific plans for what i want out of this game moving forward and then i’m done.


This is something that keeps coming back to me as i do dailies.

Blizzard feels like it isn’t happy with letting us log on and raid/do bgs/do m+ whatever, it needs to have us logged in doing something all the time. The fact every day there are up to 60 world quests available handing out a pittance of AP when it could really just be 5 moderately hard quests is absurd.

Blizz, you get my money regardless. If i log in for 7 hours a week or 70 hours - I’m paying the same amount per month.

I’ve played WoW for 15 years, but if they introduce another infinite grind next expansion I’ll be done for good.


Raiding is just way too complicated now. I say this as a former cutting edge raider. I came back mid expansion and just gave up on raiding again after I saw all the hoops I had to jump through to get started with any halfway decent guild. Way too much RNG, grinding, and timegated nonsense.


on the contrary, breaks are very, very often the death of a raid. Raiders want to raid, not, well, not raid. You go on break, they’ll go find some other group is still raiding.


This is very true, I recently recruited a player from a guild “Who took a break until Classic hype died down”, they came back 2 weeks later and had no guild.

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This can’t be a thing.

Because she drops a pet. Rare item = rare item, right? Is there some unknown agreement between every player but me that mounts are more prestigious? (edit: I’m wrong on this point because the pet drops in all difficulties. My bad)

So if I see someone riding the Shackled Ur’zul, am I supposed to care or not? It’s from the Mythic raid… but because it isn’t current, it’s not cool anymore??

The entire line of thought is broken.

The rest of your post is probably valid. But on this point I won’t agree with you.


The pet drops from all difficulties, most of us already have the pet from heroic.

And no, It just makes it more enticing to reclear - Not everyone in the guild has the Jaina mount yet, despite it being older content people would rather just go do BOD to try and get everyone the mount.

Uh? I don’t even know what to say to this. For a lot of the guild this is the first expansion they’ve been raiding…


That cause they cant see the whole benefits of the raid gear. As they only care about themself. great customer. Lousy tippers.
1.Short term fine. Only two B gear has better benefits if can get a socket.
2. Long term the benefits gained from some. Way out weight the socket benefits. Both DPS and heals to raid as a whole.
3. Sim who did it first is also blinded by it. Failed to look at the whole eco of a raid compersitions. only saw individual.

Your broken english seems to be talking about mythic raid gear vs benthic gear, in which case no, if you’re using mythic raid items over certain socketed benthic items you are categorically wrong.


Sorry, what good is raid gear when the last boss is already dead? Almost every single piece of BoD Mythic loot was replaced by benthic gear or heroic Palace gear within a week.

Most of the guys in my guild have done the hard work for benthic gear and have BIS with sockets. Why are you trying to be negative towards them? Unless they get a titanforge/warforge with a socket Benthic gear will still be better 10/10 times.

Doing the benthic lottery was exhausting for my members. They were using alts to do dailies, buying tokens and sending them to increase their chances. This is the system Blizzard put in so it’s not against the rules.

Also, the two pieces of gear from Leatherworking/Tailoring/Blacksmithing + Rings from Jewelcrafting mean there is so little options for upgrade it’s baffling.


Then you do not Know “eco”. Sorry, i speak goblin. Do not like there the door. Not explain “Eco” to wow supposed raiders.

Welcome to a PvPers world.


Missing point. stating how gear vs gear in an “ECO” raid environment. Not sure what on. No mention of hostility on my part. Wow someone heavy edit post. Fix it

Yes, I’m equally sympathetic to PvPers and the guys who just want to M+.

We have a few of them in the guild as socials, I’d try to bring them in for bosses where BIS PvP/M+ trinkets dropped to help out. It’s not great.

Look I’ll be honest I have no idea what you’re talking about, but the character you’re posting from has absolutely no raiding experience, so if you’re trying to push some feel-craft mumbo jumbo on to go against DPS sims you’re wasting your time.


itemization in bfa is an utter catastrophe. blizzard could reap a freaking public relations coup of epic proportions if they would just own up to this bs and resolve to do better in the future. but they won’t, becuase by corporate law you aren’t allowed to act like the company has made mistakes, becuase that makes shareholders nervous and you can’t have that.


Ok that’s a pretty obvious point I have to admit my own ignorance on.

At this point, best for me to just call this a Mythic issue… and I’m just a dirty casual.

Can we both agree we want WoW to better? First round is on me. :wink:


Good post though, enjoyed reading your input.


It’s so sad, I feel like they were so close to getting Benthic gear right.

What I’d like them to do:

  1. Remove titanforging/warforging
  2. Introduce a badge like system (Like the old days) that you could use to put a socket/secondary on gear, like upgrades.

Benthic could have been the perfect feature if it wasn’t for the socket/secondary part of the lottery. Why didn’t they just make forges purchasable? :frowning:

That’s all i want… I feel like Blizzard could make some extremely easy decision/changes that would greatly improve everyones enjoyment of the game but for some reason they keep coming off so tonedeaf.