Which is why the 4piece set is awful. I want to play Venthyr. Covenants were meant to be a player choice, not a choice dictated by mechanics and being optimal. Having to juggle both Kill Shot procs and empowered Cobra Shots is going to be way too much to do. And it will come down to me choosing one or the other, or spacing them out, which will both end up being a DPS loss. Why doesn’t Blizzard realize that the only optimal choice for the tier set is one Covenant. I mean sure, Necrolord is technically optimal because there is nothing that needs to be done after you use it, but it underperforms in other areas that it is not worth being Necro at all. And of course you just get far too much crit as is, that going Kyrian isn’t worth it at all because you’ll likely never use the secondary function of that ability in a raid or M+ environment.
And after they “changed” it almost nothing was done to it. Literally no one is having trouble casting Multi-shot every 4 seconds. Sure having to cast it every 10 seconds is nice, again why would I do that when I can (and should) be using the empowered Cobra Shot. It just doesn’t make sense to me. This change seems so far off the mark that I have no idea what they were thinking. Does anyone even play a BM Hunter on the team? And by play one I don’t mean level one to 60 and then stopped. I mean actually play in a Raiding or M+ environment. Because anyone who has would know this change does nothing.
I just hate that there were thousands of feedback given about the set both during the PTR and after when Blizzard made that post, and they were all ignored in favor of making the set the way it is.
Huh? I play in a Heroic guild that sometimes tries out Mythic. That is at a level where Covenant matters. And if you don’t think so, then you are part of the problem.
Killing Shriekwing once, never touching mythic in SoD, and not even stepping into heroic Sepulcher yet, no you don’t play at a level where covenant matters.
The set is bad and the change they made is laughable, but you will always have a superior covenant. In case you didnt notice, you were already pretty much locked into NF as BM in 9.1, so not much is changing in that regard.
Have you just made Hunter from #$%^ takes your thing? There’s a problem with BM Hunters being pigeonholed into Night Fae whether or not OP in particular raids mythic.
Do you really want to try and say that the OP is locked into playing NF? Is that really the hill you want to die on? There are dozens of things they need to fix before covenant even begins to come into the conversation, and you know it.
See, it’s posts like these that show your true colors and just how disingenuous you are. If one of your buddies said the same thing I did, you’d jump right on. The fact you’re now trying to act like the OP is locked into BM is laughable.
I don’t give a damn about what the OP is doing. That’s what you’re failing to understand. The BM set bonus is badly designed for all the reasons OP detailed. You’re also failing to understand that the BM set bonus really sucks to play around as Venthyr regardless of whether or not the Hunter is literally forced by their raiding environment to play Night Fae.
But it’s no surprise you showed up to waste time with bad takes because that’s literally all you have to offer the Hunter subforum. Why do you even post here when you evidently hate the class and its players?
First of all, it’s been a week since the new raid has come out. There are about 20 of us in the guild (who raid) and none of us have the time to dedicate more than 6 hours a week to raiding (we average 4 hours, sometimes we go for longer). We all have full time jobs, and WoW is not a top priority for some people. Last week we had some no shows, so our progress wasn’t great.
Overall Shadowlands hasn’t been great to our guild (lots of people quitting), so we didn’t attempt Mythic SoD. We (the guild, not so much me, I didn’t have the time) did a bunch of Mythic in BfA. But I shouldn’t have to dignify you with an answer because clearly you only care about not understanding the point of my post. I shouldn’t have to explain myself.
There are inherent issues with the spec across all convenants except Night Fae, and that’s a problem. It doesn’t matter what your skill level is, playing anything but NF is just not optimal. And that’s the problem.
Thanks, Bepples. You get it.
They already issued their “change.” I mention it in my original post. The change doesn’t really do anything helpful.
He’s a level 18 Troll that wont even post on their main. Don’t give him the time of day.
Most hunter’s specifically BM hunter’s completely agree with your original sentiment in this post.
Thats kind of an own goal right there since this is what you like to do.
Even in this thread, you could see that im not even agreeing with the op and most others, at least in parts. I dont care that the set bonus favours one covenant over the others. I care that it does nothing for AOE and that the “fix” for the set bonus shows that the devs have no clue at all about the functionality of the spec.
Also, even if youre just an average heroic raider, your covenant choice very much matters, since this is a dps gain that is extremely easy to implement and people dont just magically become better players, but can change their covenant with a button click.
So what? If they were NF, their 29 parse average would probably be a 35 parse average. The meta still helps even if you aren’t playing optimally (though what might be meta for you might change).
That is just a bad take. Covenant matters for more than just extreme endgame. Most of the game is played in groups, so maximizing your potential is important. Nobody wants to be a drag on their group.
This isn’t a matter of covenants being 2% apart. The set bonus has such a negative impact on two covenants, and a third is already bad, so being anything other than Night Fae will be about 10% loss in potential.
It’s hilarious the amount of bad players willing to blame covenant (and basically anything but themselves) for the fact they’re getting sub 20% parses. And people wonder why the class is still referred to as huntard. Raiding 6 hours or less a week has nothing to do without being able to play one of the easiest classes at a below LFR level.
As for the loss in potential… Talk about just plain dumb. If someone is parsing at 20%, covenant choice is meaningless. Period.
I parse well enough and clear mythic every tier, so yes compared to the people who typically post here.
So here is the thing in several cases with this new patch the discrepancy between covenants did exactly what happened in 9.1. The gap between each one jumps by a noticeable margin due to even more system layering. Yes people can just play whatever and be fine that is absolutely true BUT why should some players just be at a distinct disadvantage from wanting to lean in to the fantasy aspect of an RPG. Yes we can swap covenants now but you still haft to level each one and go back to Oribos and then swap your soulbind to be prepared for content.
In a bubble covenants may be comparable to one another but the fact is they don’t. We have Talents, Legendary Gear, and set bonuses. Within covenants we have there spell, soulbinds, and conduits. These layered systems cause a snowball effect. Maybe one talent row has 3 almost perfectly balanced talents within less then 0.3% of one another but the moments they interact with other systems due to synergies that balance will quickly swing more drastically one way or another.
When we are talking about talents it is far less of an issue due to how the game has modernized. I can go to an Inn a pick different talents or use an item to swap wherever. So when a new tier set drops I am not to broken up about swaping talents to work in tandem with my tier set because it is so convenient and simple. I don’t need to level another talent to power it up nor do I need to do a questline to unlock all of its extra power. With covenants you do.
Then we have Legendary items which are farther complicating this issue. Some Covenant legos are just better then other they are matched against due to how they work in tandem with some existing legendries or how they might interact with a set bonus. Take Vengeance Demon Hunters for example. The Kyrian Covenant ability interact well with the set bonus, The covenant lego also increases the effectiveness of the set bonus by interaction. The snowball effect causes Spirit Bomb as a talent and Kyrian as a covenant to jump far beyond the other choices. Night Fae also gains an interaction but only once double legendries have been acquired. Then we have Necrolord which doesn’t have any mixture of synergy for VDH. So we have one covenant that in terms of all performance just lags behind in competition at every step.
Having all these choices actually make the balancing nearly impossible. The team sort of passes the bunk to the players with this as some choices fall trough the cracks. All the long the team tries to tell people “Play whatever you want” we will balance it.
Since legion the team seems committed to the idea that they can balance meaningful choice when in reality they have miss fired 2 expansion in a row. They create an impossible task with the amount of time and people they realistically have to get new content out and polish it.
Like The Man said “more money, more people, more problems”. If the team took a step back and just focused in on talents, baseline abilities, and set bonuses they would not have as much of a mountain to climb when a new patch drops.
Personally I am an advocate for death to World of Systemcraft.
Noone in this thread has done that. You should try to argue with what people are saying and not with what you make up in your mind. It would do wonders for you.
Noone said that covenants are the exclusive reason why someone would parse grey and noone said that improving your own gameplay wouldnt also have a huge impact in improving your output. Depending on your mileage, it can have a much higher impact than the covenant, definetely.
However, choosing the right covenant is an extremely simple step to take, it will immediately increase your dps and has basically no strings attached for any level of players that are able to hit a button and click on the ground in the general area of the enemy.
