It doesn’t feel good to have gear that is incomplete. Gaining a trait on Azerite armor does not bring excitement, it brings relief, and then frustration if the item is still incomplete.
Legion did not reach the height of its popularity until it became easy to max artifact weapons on mains and alts. It felt great to have a complete artifact weapon.
I’m doing my WQs now because I have time and there only 3 AP world quests up at the moment for this particular emissary and they’re only for a total of about 500-650 AP combined (I did them all already but one of them was only for 174 so the other 2 couldn’t have been for much more).
They were also all spread out across the map and only 1 of them involved killing an elite mob. One was a full blown repeated quest where I had to run all over the map gathering, talking, fighting … the other was a standard “kill 50 mobs to fill a bar” quest.
Those 3 quests alone took me 30+ minutes to do when you factor in travel time and everything else and they’re still not enough to complete the emissary for me so I’m stuck doing ANOTHER quest (which of course is halfway across the map now) just to finish.
Maybe if you’re a world quest professional and this is your endgame then you have some super elite and efficient path that gets you through these faster but for us WQ casuals it takes a lot longer than people are trying to act like it does and its for a LOT LESS AP than they claim it is as well.
When you look at having to get 200k additional AP to unlock my armor at this rate its too much.
I’m confused. You’re talking like Artifact Weapons were a thing that didn’t exist. Which were by far more impactful and during the first half of tiers were arguably much more of a grind if you wanted to stay up to par.
The only way you could get away with just “logging in for raid” or “just doing my weekly M+” was if you were a much more casual player who didn’t do any high end content. I can’t think of a single person who fully unlocked their Netherlight Crucible before Antorus released who only “logged on for raid” and “just did their weekly M+.”
If all you consider “high end content” to be is mythic and keys in far excess of 15s at the time, then you’d be right, but I consider heroic to still be high end content, just not the peak.
I never went into new tiers with AP at whatever the current cap was or with full powers unlocked. I’d always be behind. My performance didn’t suffer much, but I definitely complained about AP then, as well. However, I definitely never ended a tier without being capped out. I’d always get there about half way through. That’s not the case with the current AP system. There is no way I reach 50 before the end of this tier.
And, again, I’ll go back to my favorite wow point: wrath. Best gear from raid? check.
All needs provided to cover raid consumables just from clearing? check.
No perma grind mechanics? check.
WOTLK was super easy to cap out on BIS every tier and it was amazing not having to worry about gear or time affecting parses.
You do heroic so you don’t need to hit 50 before end of raid tier. You are most likely already at the level you need to be for all heroic gear unlocks.
50 isn’t a “need to hit”. It’s just the cap you can get to. Just like max paragon in Legion, there’s a cap, but those last couple levels mean almost nothing (a couple stat upgrades on your neck) and for heroic raiders it’s the last several levels.
When 8.2 comes out there will be a new HoA and the grind will start again. I bet you they’ll do something where the AK level will making getting to 50 obsolete so that those behind will catch up quickly to that level and the new AP gains will be very expensive in comparison so that everyone is basically even at the get go.
It’s not about what is needed to just simply do the bosses for me, so I don’t care about that. We could likely beat the bosses at neck zero if our raid was entirely our “best” players. I care about there being power on the table that necessitates mundane activities instead of challenging ones. “But it’s always blah blah” yes and I’ve never EVER liked it one bit, hence one of the reasons wrath is my favorite.
Maybe if wow was worth playing outside of it’s minuscule challenging content, I’d be more inclined. But I’m not about doing the same ez boring activity that requires no brain power 1000 times because devs are looking for ways to keep me playing and it’s the cheapest, lowest effort way they can think of.
I digress.
Whatever their new system is, it will have the same garbage issues the current one has. They’ll “fix” none of the problems people have with the system in typical blizz fashion.
If only I wasn’t addicted and there were better alternatives…
If it’s not about what’s needed, why did you bring up the AP lvl 50 that you’ll never hit anyways? Why complain about a number you won’t get to, nor do you care about getting to?
Because it impacts performance and there’s no good reason IMO that it should exist. I want neck level 50 because that is BIS, but the amount of effort and mundane crap it takes isn’t something i’m willing to do. There’s no skill involved in getting it to that level. It’s not a reward structure I like or want them to utilize.
The reason I play wow is to compete at the level of content I choose to indulge. The reason I don’t do mythic is the same reason I don’t grind the neck. I don’t want to put that much time in. I’m fine accepting that people who do something harder than I do getting better rewards and having power above me. I’m not fine with power coming from weaker forms of activities below what I want at the expense of a lot more time.
So did Paragon 100 in Legion, but no one really complained about that. Each point of neck is, what, +2 haste, vers, and mastery? That’s almost nothing. You’re also making a mountain out of a mole hill.
The whole point of these never-ending exp bars is that someone always feels like they’re gaining some level of power, even if it’s a small amount. Take that away and people won’t feel great if they get AP from a bad bonus roll. If they complete an M+ and they don’t get an item, at least they got AP. AP at paragon levels is supposed to be a “hey, at least you got something feeling”.
You sound like you’re one of those completionists who complained because they couldn’t hit the theoretical max of Paragon. That’s quite an extreme veiwpoint to take on this issue that I’m not going to indulge more argument about that.
Are you telling me that there was never anything during Wrath that was outside of Raid that was BiS?
And I hate that “at least you got something!” feeling because I know it’s just a permanent thing designed to do that.
As for wrath, yes. The best gear came from raids, because it was always the highest ilvl. With the exception of the start of the xpac and some early purples, BIS list was always raid.
Also, no one is asking you to indulge the argument. I’m not the one trying to convince you of my viewpoint. I’d be happy to drop the subject if you would just say “well, I recognize your opinion, and I think the answer is just “suck it up” because blizz disagrees and it’s their game” but you’re not doing that.
You’re attempting to convince me my opinion and mindset is factually or truthfully “wrong” which is not possible. There’s no flaw in my thinking or rationale, I simply disagree with the design decision and have valid reasons why. You don’t have to agree. You do have to accept that I’m not changing my mind and move on because you have nothing that will sway my opinion (hint: the only thing that will change my opinion ever is learning my opinion isn’t an opinion and is actually something in direct contradiction to a hard fact. Like “the earth is flat.”) Lucky for me, it’s really easy to not ever confuse opinionated topics with factual, universally true topics.
Well I like the never-ending paragon. As long as it’s trivial gains I like it in game and hope they don’t listen to you.
That’s fair. Now we can stop rehashing the same arguments and hopefully move on!
So what you’re saying is you’d rather use a 405 piece of gear vs a 415 of the same piece just because you have that last +5 ilvl upgrade and your gear says fully upgraded?
The issue really was that you could do non-raid stuff that was still fun and challenging. Now you can only get that AP by farming island expeditions and world quests which is a repetitive boring grind.
I had no problem with AP when I could get it from M+. But I refuse to do islands.
Wait - am I missing something? Don’t you still get AP at the end of each dungeon? I just never noticed because I’m only doing M+ for loot.
Haha. Both the two main people should be happy. AK is continuing the next 4 weeks.
Though the system hasn’t changed, they did move the goal post. Your feedback worked.
I am now eating crow.
I still think they should have just dropped the AP requirement for the last couple of levels but this is also an acceptable solution and is more broadly beneficial to the entire community so it seems like a good move either way.
Thank you to everyone who participated and provided useful feedback even if we didn’t always agree.
You do, but it’s a tiny amount (less than a world quest), whereas in Legion the amount of AP you got from the end of the dungeon was significant.
Originally posted by Blizzard (View Original)[Collapse](javascript:![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
The “Azerite Knowledge” system that periodically reduces the Artifact Power required to level up the Heart of Azeroth was originally intended to pause after this week. However, after reviewing feedback and looking at the range of Heart levels across the playerbase currently, we’re extending it for another four weeks. The final increment until the upcoming Rise of Azshara content update will now occur during with the weekly reset during the week of April 23.
We feel like this is the right way to make sure that Azerite powers on current gear are more broadly attainable, as well as to allow more players to get closer to the current maximum artifact level of 50 as we approach the major changes to the Heart of Azeroth system in Rise of Azshara . More information on the details of those changes soon.
If you are dumb enough to “grind” AP, that’s on you. I have 4 characters at 45 neck level. This toon will hit 46 at tomorrow’s reset. The only content I do are world emissaries every day on each one(which i would do anyways for Paragon caches), and run the class halls full bore from my phone each day. Total time commitment each day to keep 4 toons current is one hour.
Thus leaving me lots of time to enjoy the parts of the game that I find fun, i.e., raiding and mythic plus.
If even 15 minutes a day to keep 1 character current is too much, then you should just probably cancel your sub.