Arthas - not Sylvanas - deserves the redemption arc

  • During the moments leading up to and including Stratholme, most of Arthas’ decisions were justifiable and correct. There was no saving those who were afflicted with the plague - killing them wasn’t just the only choice, it was the merciful path.

  • Jaina and Uther’s joint decision to abandon Arthas at that critical juncture - despite lacking the first-hand experience with the plague that he had used to come to the the decision to cull - ultimately hardened his heart, and drove him down a dark path. Both characters washed their respective hands of responsibility for anything preceded the event or followed it - they left Arthas to feel simultaneously guilty and brutally vindicated. It was a completely toxic mixture that he didn’t bear personal responsibility for.

  • Arthas’ singular greatest failure that wasn’t influenced in some way by Frostmourne was the decision to murder the mercenaries at the Forgotten Shore - this cannot be pinned on either Jaina or Uther, and is 100 percent an evil act by the prince. You can make the case that it was a direct result in the isolationism that he experienced following the loss of counsel/support after Stratholme, but, ultimately, this deed is the one that can be unequivocally pinned on him.

  • Everything in the immediate leadup to touching Frostmourne can - and likely should - at least in part be blamed on enchantment. I’m not absolving Arthas of his deepening madness at this juncture, but rather pointing out that there are significant mitigating circumstances at work that would (at least in a court of law) probably largely absolve him of personal responsibility.

  • Everything after he touched Frostmourne can be blamed on a) his losing his soul (a handicap I don’t think anyone can even properly fathom [what is a person without a soul? How is that even the same individual anymore?]) and b) his consciousness eventually becoming merged with that of Ner’zhul. Simply put: it’s difficult for me to accept that Arthas was, in any way, running the show anymore once he touched the sword.

So, all told, you have a guy doing a few heinous (but necessary) things, committing one really appalling (but hardly unique in the annals of Azeroth [and something that could be atoned for]) act, and then being heavily enchanted/corrupted/merged out of full existence.

I’m not trying to say that the Lich King was good or anything, or that Arthas was a completely innocent bystander during all that occurred once he grabbed Frostmourne. But he clearly wasn’t in full (or any) control during his supposed worst acts. It seems pretty obvious that, were Shadowlands operating properly, he would have wound up in Revendreth, and - I believe, given his actions immediately prior to his death at the Frozen throne - would have probably rapidly repented.

By contrast, most of what we know about Sylvanas revolves around character actions that occurred following her liberation from Arthas’ control. And during nearly that entire time, she has pretty much been a self-absorbed, plotting, plague-spreading, malevolent mess. I do not know the degree to which Frostmourne can ultimately be blamed for her behavior prior to its shattering, but once that happened, at least, every evil act she has committed rests squarely at her own feet.

And even then, I don’t feel like she deserves to be auto-condemned to the Maw, either. But her spirit definitely requires far more time in Revendreth than does even Arthas’, and a redemption arc for her doesn’t exactly make a lot of sense considering that she has actively plotted every moment from the Wrathgate to the present date to serve her own personal ambition - not caring a damn for even her own people (who nevertheless worshipped her like a god), let alone Azeroth’s millions of living sentient and non-sentient creatures.

So, no, I think it should be Arthas who gets to redeem himself - Arthas even, perhaps, who helps to redeem Uther. But Sylvanas? We shouldn’t care what happens to her because she’s just not a particularly good person, and doesn’t have an excuse for her behavior. And just because people like that suddenly say ‘oh, whoops, my bad!’ doesn’t mean they should be given a narrative pass.

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Garithos. He can redeem himself by killing Malfurion/Tyrande.

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The only thing they should do with Arthas is either leave him in the Maw or bring him to the Arbiter once she’s fixed. He doesn’t deserve anything more.

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Would you care to expand on why, exactly, you believe he doesn’t deserve anything more, considering that almost every evil deed assigned to him occurred in a period during which his soul was absent? And his soul is the thing that has been (unjustly) cast into the Maw?

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Blizzard already confirmed Arthas was fully in control of his actions at Blizzcon. There is no “Frostmourne turned Arthas into the Jailor’s puppet” narrative. That is complete fanon.

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Why is bringing him to the Arbiter not enough for you? He would then get properly judged, likely to Revendreth.

I don’t buy it. Sorry. The game explicitly states his soul was stolen. I’m not going to judge his character based on some hack’s afterthought retcon. Moreover, bad people go to Revendreth - they don’t just get pooped down to the Maw without any chance to atone. Set garbage retcons aside - this is current WoW that tells us this.

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Look, all I’m saying is, if I had a cool sword like that, I’d be using it, too.

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“Arthas made choices along the way, and yes there was a dark power calling to him and all of that, but it was still very much choices that he made that led him along the path that he went.”

There you go. Things get retconned all the time in WoW, but that’s the current lore.

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It doesn’t matter whether you “buy it,” or not. Blizzard writes the story, not you. And this is what the story is.

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Art has was a crappy character.

Sylvanas is way more useful

Arthas and the alliance created Sylvanas

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Okay, and the current lore also, VERY CLEARLY, shows that Uther’s decision to arbitrarily cast Arthas into the Maw was incorrect and/or completely evil. It wasn’t proper procedure because people who do bad things get a chance to right their eternal ship… and Arthas wasn’t given that opportunity. He was just unconscious and heaved into the Maw.

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I’d rather not see him at all personally. Arthas had his story, a beginning and a solid end. The tragic fallen hero turned villain was his main arc. Not everyone needs a happy ending and it’d kind of ruin his whole story if they redeemed him.

We might or might not say hello to him during SL, but I really think they should just leave Arthas alone or not use him in any center spotlight way. Keep a very light hand on it.

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Contradictory? Yeah. Great. Please kowtow a bit more before their genius.

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Fair enough. Just pointing out Arthas was very much responsible for everything he did as the Lich King. If that means going to Revendreth and not the Maw then I agree. I’m not sure anyone is meant to go to the Maw first. There are characters in Revendreth who destroyed entire planets filled with life.

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you do NOT kill Uther and expect redemption.

if Uther condemns you… you are G O N E.

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I don’t think any of you know what a true “Redemption” is… Its not about deserving it via your past actions. Its not about how you were wronged and it causing you to turn to bad… Its all an internal struggle, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything else. Even Revendreth storyline teaches players this… You don’t get Redemption through Vengeance, Apologies, or words… its an endless struggle… Most of their denziens are tortured for eons to let loose the torment of their sins… Arthas and Sylvanas have both been “dead” in comparison to the cycle like a drop of water in the ocean, or a grain of sand on the beach.

It also should go to note, that some of the most evil people alive are treasured and adored by the masses.

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TLDR - Arthas did nothing wrong.

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Arthas deserves it more than Sylvannas, but he doesn’t deserve a redemption arc.