The 20% haste break point is to fit another ability within the CS window. Critical strikes generate more rage, and if anything, that would fill in dead spots.
The changes in dps charts are due to raids managing mechanics differently, killing bosses faster, and certain classes lining up CDs within different windows as a result, amongst many other variables. Classes all scale. If your theory was correct then warriors would have shot up as people improved from 205 to 228 ilevel.
This post is from 4 years ago.
I didnāt disagree with you
See above. Also, my previous posts were points to help improve the OPs DPS.
Make this point in the warrior discord and see how many people agree with you. All classes scale. Tuning changes and the above points about raid mechanics will determine DPS warrior placement in the logs.
Do me a favorāgo ahead and hit up the warrior dps guide on Icyveins and let me know what the very first line of āWarrior Strengths as a DPSā says.
Please donāt come on here without information and make claims. While shadowlands introduced a DR on stats, they didnāt ānormalizeā how specs and classes scale with something like hasteāthere are feedback loops that canāt be changed with things like that.
We talk to the theory crafters on the Warrior discordā¦
I mean, weāve read the guides, and we get to talk to their creators. Theyāre on the same page hereā¦
I have seen/heard a lot of YouTubers saying certain classes scale with gear, and I think what they mean is that certain classes gain more from certain stats. Not that one class goes head and toes above everyone else cause ilvl puts them there. Just more that as they can find more gear with the desired stat, the better their through put can be. Even stat stacking though, doesnāt mean anything scales differently with better gear.
Ok, that was long winded. I donāt even feel like trying to go back and make that less of a mess of thoughts.
TL/DR - All classes improve as better gear becomes available.
Youāre correct to an extent, but classes do not scale equally with gear which is the argument Iām trying to make.
There is a positive feedback loop between certain stats and certain classes that makes them scale more incrementally. Take a ww monk for example. As you get more haste on gear, you also get an increase in melee attack speed (amongst other things, but Iām simplifying here). There is no feedback loop here, just an increase in melee damage.
Applying this to a warrior, more haste also results in increased attack speed which in turn results in more rage generated which results in more rage spent which (with something like anger management) results in the cooldown of recklessness being reduced and using reck more increases crits which give more rage per auto attacks which are occurring more frequently due to haste and so on.
This is obviously oversimplified but the point remains that certain specs gain incrementally more power from these stats via positive feedback loops over the course of an expansion and not all classes scale equally.
Thereās plenty of documentation on how this works online and Iām sure in skyhold plenty of people can explain it more eloquently than I.
I normally feel like youāre on point with things but I actually showed an example of a positive feedback loop that shows how a class can scale harder with a stat. WW gets those things but they donāt provide the same incremental change.
I didnāt say they scale special, I said they benefit from stats increasing over time more than some classes. That was all I was attempting to convey.
I know better than to think youāre ever willing to be open minded to anything but your own binary view of warrior though, so Iām happy to not frustrate myself with this.
The niche about dps warriors, has been and always will be that we tend to suck at the start of the fight, but we shine during the execute phase. It currently also feels bad atm because Warriors donāt really do well at the start of an expansion because we are the most gear dependent class in the game.
Hate to be the oneā¦ but you mentioned it, so you cared enough to at least address it, and I donāt think my post was targeting you in the first place, so I donāt quite understand why your getting so upset over someone elses view or point. The person I was addressing has since deleted their post as to discontinue the back and forth.
probably older than you my friend. Hence why I can look at it with a clear head, and only defend myself when needed, rather than trying to grasp on to straws and bring everyone down with me. If you have a valid point to help the OP then help him/her out. This quoting others and giving no new information which can help OP out is getting old fast.
I said my piece. My opinion is that until 9.2ish Warriors wonāt be viable in pug groups as there are better options to take that cover all the roles that Warriors cover. They are the worst tanks to bring into Mythics and second worst to bring into Nathria. Their melee dps is being compromised by lack of rage generation present from the start of the expansion, and the amount of aoe spells that target melee dps which force them out of combat.
Arms warriors have no self healing other than second wind, which again, forces you out of combat, all other general cooldowns are in the other 2 specs.
I wasnāt telling OP to give up on his warrior entirely, just put it on the sidelines until the next big patch which should fix rage generation by increasing ilvls, or alternately play with guildies if he/she has them. I know all too well how difficult it is to get a group as a dps warrior as Iāve played a dps warrior since Wrath. They were only viable last expansion thanks to certain corruptions and Memory of Lucid Dreams which essentially solved all the rage generation problems warriors were having.
They had valid, and correct information. You just choose to assume they were attacking or belittling you.
Increased resources will occur to every spec and class as the expansion progresses. Healers gain more mana, Hunters gain more focus regen, Rogues and Monks more Energy, Warlocks more soul shards, ect.
No amount of Haste or Crit from tbe next tier will suddenly make us do a lot more damage.
In return we have a pleothra of defensive options. Spell Refelect alone is actually an insane defensive option with multiple applications in Castle Nathria and M+. The amount of things Warriors get to deflect or ignore is a lot this expansion.
This is not a thing and has not been a thing for a very long time, as people continue to tell you. Everything rage wise is at a fixed rate. Your auto attacks give a set amount of rage regardless of item level. Haste scales with Rage expenditure the same way it does with Haste gains.
If the OP wants to play Arms theyāre more than viable to complete all of Mythic Nathria and probably +18 with enough gear.
To be fair, autoattack crits do generate more rage, and crit does not increase the rate of rage expenditure like haste does, so we will, in fact, get more rage income relative to what we spend as we get better gear. But itās not going to make that much of a difference.
If your crit chance is 25%, then you will get, on average, 40.625 rage per auto-attack. If you increase your crit chance by, say, 10% (Iām not actually sure how much higher it gets with a new tier of gear), then you go to 43.875 rage per auto-attack, which is only an 8% increase.
Add in the fact that youāre getting at least some rage from non-auto attack sources (Avatar, Charge, Execute refunds, Skullsplitter, Ravager, etc), and itās not moving the needle that much.
And thatās assuming that crit remains a desirable stat. Iāve found it tends to sim the highest for me, but Iām not sure to what extent that applies at higher item levels (or with different starting stats, could be that my gearing is peculiar in some way).
But yeah, while it is true that rage generation will scale up a bit faster than rage spending, itās not like Arms is suddenly going to be drowning in resources.