tldr of this post; is that my rogues don’t want to play combat and I don’t really blame them. I actually like the arms roto I just wish it was even like middle of the pack capable and not utter dumpster dps.
In line with recent changes to feral and ret’s around utilization of a glyph, I would like to suggest:
Glyph of Slam - Victims of your slam ability will cause the target to become susceptible to critical strikes from your bleed effects for ~?6? seconds. (crits from bleeds do not contribute to deep wounds “stack”)
would pivot warrior playstyle potentially in arena… but would take some good wind up and positioning properly to really get full effect… but with the change to using shield wall/spell reflect etc. maybe that kind of change is something blizzard would like to implement anyway?
I’m not going to sit here and pretend like I’ve done all of math or tables etc. but something for the debuff lads would be swell.
I mean just putting in the glyph of thunderclap from Cata early would do the trick. Allowing thunderclap to refresh and spread rend would give an aoe rotation that doesn’t immediately rip threat.
Alternatively switching glyph of devastate and glyph of sunder armor would be another minor tweak. Allowing full sunder on three applications would be way better for our opener and the cleave sunder on devestate would actually serve some purpose unlike now.
Arms are the raid utility spec… You bring them for The 4% damage buff, a constant source for sunder armor and commanding shouts. They do good enough DPS with bleeds to be relevant while providing all the others classes with a buff. It’s like a guaranteed raid spot for warrior because Fury isn’t really that great yet…
could make a similar argument for feral bringing 5% crit and a battle rez but blizzard still decided they’re dps needed reworking to be more competitive.
I agree with you that the arms warrior is designed to be the debuffer. I am not implying that I want it to do more dps than the top performers. I’m asking that it put out damage that is more reasonable / respectable. topping out at 7-8k on the good fights when the real dps are doing 12-14 is dumb.
ele shaman for instance is another class that was supposed to “not be very good” this xpac and fall off (granted I know that ulduar is their peak of the xpac). They provide a ton of utility between totems, spell power, crit, tremor… but blizzard still elected to make fire elemental reset on boss pull to make them more competitive / in the pack.
Fair enough… I sense that Arms will get something by ICC. By then it won’t matter as much tho. In fact next phase historically is a cake walk compared to original nerfed Ulduar… So basically it’s over for us.
They are just too weak compared to the other classes that share their debuff, they need either damage or a unique debuff or else they’ll never be played. Combat rogue and feral just cover them too well and those are some of the top dps specs
i absolutely agree with you… but sim’s are indicating that assass is going to stay relevant much longer than people thought going in… and understandably my rogues want to stick to assass since the roto feels alot better / seemless.
I agree that at a foundational level that I should just be fury and we have at least 1 of the rogues be combat; but it would also be nice to have the option to just play arms (which i actually enjoy rotationally) and not have to strong-arm them into playing a spec that they don’t want (which could result in burnout / quitting the game and having to refill the raid slot)
The theme of wotlk was supposed to be “bring the player, not the class” after the nightmarish party-synergy needs of TBC. I’m just asking for that level of opportunity for the arms lads (also helps spread out these rare voldrethar’s to the rest of the gang)
Yeah, for one reason or another, Blizz basically wanted each class to have at least 1 good DPS spec, but never had any interest in making sure that all of them were good if a class had multiple.
BM hunters, Sub rogues, Frost mages and Arms warriors were particularly singled out there as specs blizz had no intention of making good in PvE due to PvP concerns.
Might have been different if they were ok making PvE only adjustments like the current devs, but in the wrath era they weren’t.
Unfortunately, the current devs are also sticking with the “that’s a PvP spec” view on arms based on their few communications.
No one would be particularly harmed by a modest arms buff that was PvE limited.
I appreciate the candor and thought in your reply. My hope of the verbiage in the glyph proposal was to emphasize its pve usefulness without exacerbating the fact that arms warrior is one of the stronger classes for arena in wotlk.
I have thought of and have been submitting suggestion tickets around potential ideas of this nature… but definitely a very difficult task around the warrior kit. Very easy to make them just altogether too powerful in pvp.
No they didn’t, they only gave paladins a dps spec because they whinged on the forum for 4 months.
Smeet’s argument: All classes deserve a dps spec, nevermind that having the most OP tank and best healer in WoTLK affords them a competitive edge in very competitive raid spots. Nevermind that some classes have three dps trees, therefore only one according to him needs to be viable. Compared to paladins having all three trees PvE worthy. Two of which are S tier. But you should view retribution in a vacuum because… he says so.
Nevermind his arguments are utter trash for why that’s the case.
Yes they did. That’s literally how wrath worked back then, and how it is working now.
At no point in the original wrath run were rets 10% below the next lowest PvE damage spec in practice. Blizz simply fixed where rets were supposed to be performing as modern optimizations highlighted balancing mistakes with the role.
Your entire argument is flawed because it is just flatly incorrect about how wrath was balanced. It’s entirely based on how you want it balanced.
And yes, my argument is that every class should have a DPS spec because that is how EVERY expansion of WoW has worked after the original version. After TBC launched there were never classes that had no DPS spec that was viable.
If you want to play WoW with a zero sum method of balance, play on the classic era realms. The rest of the classic series will have every class viable for DPS regardless of how strong they are in other roles.
I’d be fine with either prot warrior (although I think it’s more that they need prot pally nerfed, specifically ardent defender) or arms warrior (PvE only) buffs.
I’m also fine with the minor adjustments warriors are getting in the next patch to lower the skill ceiling to maximize fury a bit, which will bring up the average.
I’m just not for fury getting substantial buffs. It doesn’t need them.
