after a lot of back and fourth I think I may re roll to a arms warrior since wotlk. Seeing videos and playing myself, arms spec is back to being top tier spec. Where my arms people at.
This confuses me.
Are you talking PvE or pvp?
If you are talking pvp okay I’ll take your word as I don’t know.
If your talking pve… hahahaha… ha
He must mean PVP because in pve its pretty cruddy
Arms is sadly always low tier pve but scales well at end of xpacs.
Pvp wiae arms is just juicy af in sl.
2 Likes
Are you talking Shadowlands or BFA? Because Shadowlands hasn’t had a tuning pass for dps yet and in BFA it’s literally the undisputed king of melee dps until corruption goes away.
Jesus Christ not this outdated crap again. Please don’t post stuff that hasn’t been accurate in a decade.
7 Likes
A tuning pass? Its been through several and time is running out. But aside from a tuning pass the beta is riddled with bugs when I play it. Certain conduits aren’t working, certain talents like massacre aren’t working, and there are core functionality issues with Arms in Shadow Lands when it comes to PVE. The talents are a mess and many of the covenant are crud.
this is somewhat accurate depending no your definition of scaling. Arms is very dependent on haste values. hence why it does better toward the end of xpacs.
Only tanks have had an actual tuning thus far. Every other spec has had only actual gameplay changes.
Things like this are why it hasn’t had a tuning pass yet.
Repeating false information doesn’t make it right. Please stop.
This. Is not. A thing.
This. Is not. A thing.
5 Likes
so arms warrior is 10 percent haste vs one with 30 percent haste will do the same amount of dps?
So you don’t understand what scaling is. Good to know.
Can you tell me why arms likes haste. Let’s start simple.
3 Likes
Cds, gobal CD, bleed ticks, and attack speed for rage regeneration leading to more attacks. It’s also why crit is important in pve as well for the extra rage. If having more of those stats increases your resources, than how it that not considered scaling?
1 Like
So nothing unique. Additionally, crit is more for rage gen than haste. Haste is rage neutral.
Now, let’s look back. To early bfa, Legion, WoD, MoP, and Cata. In approximately none of these was haste your priority stat.
In fact, prior to Legion, it was the least important stat. In Legion, it typically ranged from second to last.
(This is temporarily ignoring that stat value is individual and dependent on one’s gear and setup, for the sake of time and argument)
Things changed in BFA. What did not change was arms. What did, was Test of Might. Throw Lucid on top, suddenly haste has exponential value.
Arms is keeping neither of those going into Shadowlands.
Every specializtion in the game “scales” with stats. Arms does not gain special value from stats. It does not start off weak, end strong, in any extra regard compared to other specs.
You can pretty clearly see this just by viewing arms track record. In both Cata and MoP, arms was nerfed, hard, early on, due to being too strong. In Legion, arms dominated raids 1, 2, and 4 out of 5. It was mid tier in raids 3 and 5.
In BFA, Arms was the dominant spec, with affliction warlock, in Uldir, but dropped to bottom tier in BoD and CoS, and then the introduction of essences shot it to top tier in EP and Nyalotha.
The scaling you’re talking about would show, on a stat flow chart, the value of specific stats (in this case haste) jumping up at certain points, and giving exponentially higher returns per point. Before ToM, and after, it wasn’t and won’t be the case.
7 Likes
The only thing I can see as being relevant to arms “scaling” is the class being helped by weapons with certain proc effects. A recent example being Getti’ikku.
That’s not really scaling though, more of a BiS thing.
Uh oh Corvere you stepped in it now. These guys wait around for someone to mention scaling and jump down your throat. They will add words and assumptions to your statements . Like the fact that you never mentioned warriors scale special or different compared to other classes yet they will imply that you did. You will also get tossed cherry picked data from a few expansions and raids but for some reason all the other raids and expansions where warriors had very poor performance are left out.
They mention nerfs to performance but fail to include why (perhaps warriors scaled a little better than intended that raid tier during an extremely long execute phase or with external buffs). I mean Blizzard didn’t need to nerf TOM in PVP season 1 because it scaled our damage to far ahead of health pools or anything. So in the future just add “I know warriors don’t scale special” in your signature and you should be ok.
2 Likes
Interesting take, mate.
…why would I leave out warriors poor performance when that has zero impact on the matter of “scaling”. I actually mentioned when arms did and did not perform well.
The nerfs to arms warrior, that I specifically mentioned? Or.
I could go through and list every single time in the game’s history arms has been buffed or nerfed.
…are you talking about PvP.
Really.
1 Like
So starting on starting off slow. You say warriors don’t scale special. I agree with you so we are on same page there. However let’s consider starting points of several classes Arms im particular.
For giggles I just rolled 3 fresh 60s of the classes I play on SL beta server. They all 3 have same starting gear and weapons. Same stats basically. Here is currently their respective stat values.
DK Frost
Crit % 12
Haste 8%
Mastery 30%
Vers 2 %
Pal Ret
Crit 10%
Haste 6%
Mastery 26%
Vers 4%
Warrior Fury
Crit 12%
Haste 9%
Mastery 20%
Vers 4%
Warrior Arms
Crit 9%
Haste 7%
Mastery 16%
Vers 4%
So this is what I mean by starting off slow. Arms off the bat has lower overall stats than melee counterparts. As arms I need to get more gear to have an equivalent starting point. Now this is beta so it may change but based off simply this are you going to tell me Arms isn’t starting of at a slower point than even its other dps spec. Why the difference in stat distribution (aka scaling)?
1 Like
I’d say this is Christmas but I’m not even enjoying it.
The only stat that gains different percent per point is mastery. Haste, vers, and crit scale the same, point to percent conversion.
If you remove all gear, and just leave yourself with the base spec, you’re left with no haste or vers, 5% crit, and some mastery. The exact mastery amount depending on the spec in question. Barring some specs, such as feral or guardian druid, who start with 10% crit.
You have different gear on.
4 Likes
Ha quite right. Guess reading comes in handy instead of assuming pants, rings and boots that look alike are actually alike. So after taking off all the pieces that were not alike stats with exception of mastery are indeed the same.
So the good news is you are indeed correct Merry Christmas! The bad news is there are now 6 half dressed female Draenei in Oribos. Merry Christmas.
2 Likes