Do you really believe that I fall into the Classic+ category? I’ve stated in many posts that I want Classic to remain the way it is. You have even clicked the like button on a great deal of them. Did you even read all my posts throughout this thread? You’re barking up the wrong tree… Or rather you’re preaching to the choir
The Classic WoW community is split on this issue and lines have been drawn a long time ago.
When I made that statement, that was referring to ALL the people who play Classic… I did not specifically mean the people who appealed to Blizzard with the petition and Mark Kern on their behalf.
The point I was trying to make, was that ever since Classic was announced… Everyone in the #nochanges community has fought against everyone else who wanted to change the game how they wanted it… aka the Classic+ people. That battle is STILL taking place, and you just addressed me as one of them, and I am not. I’m at the other end of the spectrum. I have no desire to see Classic+ EVER become a thing. Nor do I want Classic to change
Sorry I’m not buying that BS. The battlegrounds killed world PVP nothing else. As soon as the honor and ranking system came out along with the battlegrounds…Nobody did PVP in the open-world anymore. One of the main reasons behind it is because it was more rewarding and lucrative to PVP in the battlegrounds, and with the dishonorable kill mechanic, ganking lowbies was not a good idea if you wanted to advance through the ranks because it lowered your honor.
World PVP 95% of the time was all about ganking lowbies, or attacking people who were already in combat and couldn’t defend themselves because they weren’t at full health and mana. And it’s almost never 1 on 1.
You will find out once Phase 3 hits if you don’t believe me. it won’t be long after that and world PVP participation will drop to almost nothing. At that point flying won’t be in the game so your excuse doesn’t hold water.
The main reason that people point to flying as to why it killed world PVP is because they are cowards and won’t fight someone who is within their level range unless they have a clear advantage, meaning somebody else to team up with to kill them, or they are already busy fighting mobs. Any other time it’s just ganking lowbies and corpse camping. You can’t corpse camp someone who is able to fly away after they rez, so you get butthurt about it and rage on the forums about it.
None of this would even matter if they kept the level requirements to gain the ability to fly the same. As soon as they lowered it to 60, and allowed everyone to fly everywhere… That’s when the world pvpers and gankers got mad about it.
Well flying mounts made outlands feel very small… TBC also butchered the lore. That being said zones looked really cool and mechanically it was the best expansion with solid ideas like arena battling and the pvp sets looked great.
Did you play WC3 and see what they did to Illidan, Kael’Thas. I mean mechanically TBC was really good but flying sucked not only for world pvp but for making the world feel small.
TBC turned major lore characters into glorified loot pinata’s and generic baddies. I throw up a bit in my mouth thinking of TBC… Classic > TBC > all other expacs.
There are a couple of great arguments against BC, and they’ve been made at length:
It completely devalues all previous progression. This is the first and biggest problem with it.
It broke the world in many ways through stat and power inflation, and with the introduction of flying.
The first point is the only one that needs to exist for me not to have anything to do with it. I get that a lot of people want BC, and from the beginning the possibility of it has been mooted (by Blizzard as well) so it’s probably coming on some servers at least. But to say there are no arguments against it as if it is some absolute good is pretty one-eyed.
Arenas were fun for those that liked them, but they ruined PvP by being the be-all in progression. They were the welfare epics and started that downward slide. World objectives and battlegrounds suffered in popularity and relevance. I don’t even have to tell you what that combined with flying mounts did to world PvP.
In classic you had TM vs SS fights, and AV largely replaced those and made them more structured. The game between 1.7 leading into TBC ruined AV by opening it to farming by removing too many NPCs, thus allowing people to mount-zerg their way into the enemy town to kill the commander fast.
To keep Classic good for PvP you need to have pre-1.7 AV and no TBC.
I played vanilla and tbc. There was still plenty of wpvp after battlegrounds were released in vanilla.
Vanilla/classic or any expansion wpvp was never about having fair fights. If you want that you can go duel in front of ogrimmar or stormwind, que battlgrounds and arena.
Wpvp was about making enemies on your server with people you would see daliy, you would remember thier names and guilds and do the same thing back to them when you had the opportunity. I recently went back and forth with a warrior in STV for a few hours ganking each other on mobs. I logged for a bit to take a break and came back, and guess who found me? But this time he helped kill the mob that was on me, he gave me a wait emote and i helped kill the mob on him. We both rested to full then went at it 1v1.
Once flying was introduced people had an easy out from pvping on a pvp server. Rivalries died out, there was no point on trying to hold an area down anymore. It basically made wpvp on a pvp server almost completely optional.
I play classic to wpvp, even when im getting ganked, 5v1’d, skull con camped, or whatever else because that is what I came here to play. Otherwise i would have rolled on a pve server
I am with you on this one… I remember the old days of AV when you would PVP for hours… And then when you had to quit and logged off to go to bed for school or work or whatever, when you logged back in afterwards you were still in the SAME AV fight, and were able to pick up right where you left off.
I realize that by patch 1.12 that this was no longer a thing. That being said, as much as I hate changes to the game that weren’t present in 1.12, this is one thing that I wouldn’t mind if Blizzard chose to do for Phase 3, but I doubt they will.
There are some challenges and considerations which go against implementing TBC, for example having multiple versions and patches of wow increases the administrative burden. It also shrinks the playerbase available to any one version of the game.
Personally I would be playing TBC over Vanilla any day but to say their are no arguments against TBC is a fallacy.
Level cap increase - once you add this you start going down a bad path where all expansion packs (not only, in some cases just patches) replace the existing tier of content. So add BC and lvl 70 means all of Azeroth becomes redundant. The reason Blizz chase their tails to constantly make new content is because they keep deleting everything else. Classic, BC, WotLK…so much to do in the game, but when Cata came out you had two options for everything…Hyjal or Vash? MC was out of the question, farming Kara was pointless.
Flying - I actually loved this when I first got it, even did all the Skyguard rep up in Skettis…farmed for Netherwing Drake, loved it. But I now know it was the beginning of a slippery slope to have flying a part of a game which is fundamentally grounded. Combat, questing, farming, travel etc. Flying kinda was the beginning of setting new expectations which caused more harm than good.
Story cohesion - when you introduce new themes and content based around the Lich King, or the Legion…you start to move other parts of the game around this story, therefor breaking it. It’s why we have Garrosh in Stonetalon mountains during the questing, whilst Voljin referenced as warchief in Dreanor, and this whole mess of Sylvanas vs. chiefless. That’s why good game design, should keep the focus of each zone…to that zone. Contained mini story lines as oposed to break content when you introduce a different theme. Why should anyone in 1k needles know what goes on in Org and vs versa? Keep the problems and story of that zone to that zone.
I’m okay with some new things for sure…I miss my BE Paly, I miss pugs for Kara runs, I miss Netherstorm and farming Mech or Bot. But I’d want this content added that compliments the existing world, not replaces…or breaks it. So if they add Shaman to Alliance, Id’ want an equally complicated class quest system to learn all of your totems. Not a quick catch up mechanic that means they now need to remove the blocks from the Horde counterparts.
Adding a new xpac or continuing the same as retail, will undoubtably end up with the same problems as retail (FYI…I don’t play retail, stopped around WotLK but spent a month or two on Panda and Cata) only resubbed for Classic.
So basically what people want is for access for future content to be closed shortly after it starts. So people could continue to join, under the impression that they would be able to play, but actually they would never be able to catch up.
Yeah I don’t get all this hate toward catch up mechanics either. Heaven forbid we want to play alts and gear them up to where our mains are in terms of progression.
I understand the concept of how the time and effort someone spends in getting their character fully decked out in BiS raid gear feels trivialized when everyone else who comes into the raiding scene later on is able to skip some of the content entirely and still have equivalent gear, but IMO the people who really care about this tend to be elitist hardcore raiders that just want to show off how big their e-peens are, and get butthurt once other people can get that far in progression more easily.
I understand the thought process behind this, but nothing that anyone else does in the game should have any effect on you. Likewise, anything you do should have no effect on them. Clearing content prenerfed and before catch-up mechanics feels great, I get it.
But that’s more about bragging rights than anything else. This is why special achievements were introduced regarding raid content like Cutting Edge and Ahead of the Curve. There were also Feats of Strength that were added for people who did older content when it was relevant. People who actually got the first warbear in Zul’aman for example.
If you want to flex and stroke your e-peen about all the awesome things you have done in raids and that’s all that really matters to you, and catch-up mechanics bruises your ego that much, then that is both sad and pathetic at the same time.
