Arena participation is low; some suggestions to address the problem

You speak like someone who literally does not play classic arena. If you enjoy solo shuffle then retail is right there for your enjoyment. Stop trying to kill off something people enjoy because you don’t. That’s a terrible take.

If classic didn’t exist I would not be playing WoW. If classic arena didn’t exist I would most likely be hard raid logging. I log on play some arena with the boys and enjoy myself. I made this thread to try and get some traction on the major issues arena is facing and offered solutions. The entire point was to ALLOW THE MAJORITY to play arena without getting destroyed. The more players that are encouraged to play the healthier the game is as a whole. The barrier to entry is too high for the average player to even bother getting their toes wet. Solo shuffle is not something classic needs. It’s a retail solution to a retail problem. This is classic.

If you think we want to make arena more exclusive then you’re just delusional man. We want everyone to give it a try and see if they like it, and removing rating requirements would do just that.

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2600 lil duelist spriest

I agree increasing arena participation is a good thing, but removing the old carrot on a stick to replace it with a carrot much lower to the ground doesn’t feel right imo.

The idea of furious for honor is spot on & in line with later xpacs.

Instead of current season requirements like weps going down to 1400/1600 or whatever was said what about people just playing the game and improving themselves lol. Like I don’t think lowering the rating standards to placate the people unwilling to take the time to improve themselves just doesn’t seem right. Cata system solves all of this anyway, let wotlk have a semblance of itself.

Moving the furious gear to honor closes the stat gap considerably & is enough of a leg up imo. They should definitely do that.

Higher rated players don’t have an issue getting 2.2k etc in deadly mainset gear. I even did 2k on a deadly warrior alt, who heavily depends on gear. It’s not a stat gap as much as their problem is a knowledge gap. Playing meta comps to increase their success, then practice, & learning how they deal with every comp etc is all the things these players you’re targeting aren’t willing to do and is the REAL reason they are hardstuck 1600 or w/e.

Unless your goal is to increase bracket sizes for our titles, giving them access to full relent at low ratings won’t help anybody compared to them doing what I said above.

These are mostly great ideas that would benefit the Arena scene a bit. The real problem with Arena participation is the fact that the PvP community in general is incredibly toxic. You’re not going to have an influx of casuals because they don’t want to have a low rating label attached to them on some Arena website that can be used to attack them for their entire time playing this game.

Look at the OP:

This is what Arena does to your brain. Top 0.5% every season isn’t amazing. Top 1% is mediocre. Top 10% and you’re terrible.

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He’s just being humble because it’s about himself. If it was someone elses ratings i doubt that hed say negative things about being that high rated.

0.5% R1, 1% Glad, 3% Duelist etc that’s out of ALL north america, south America, and oceanic. That is clearly a very good player regardless of class.

I don’t play with toxic pvpers everyone I know is helpful & has a goal they are working toward. Maybe my main is too high rated to play with a friend, but i have alts. Everyone just has a good time pushing goals together from my experiences.

This sounds like pve & parse obsessed majority of wotlkc to me my friend.

I disagree with you for a few reasons:

removing the old carrot on a stick to replace it with a carrot much lower to the ground doesn’t feel right imo

At this point there is no “carrot on a stick”. Without having access to competitive gear in the first place, there is little to no incentive to even try to advance as a new player. Assuming both teams / players are on an equal skill level, you are bound to lose if you are out-geared by a player who simply has more time put into the game accumulating the very best gear. It is the main reason for the dwindling participation in the first place. Even WITH all of the very best PvP gear available, you’ll still be at a disadvantage compared to those who also participate in heroic raids for the best offset / trinkets.

what about people just playing the game and improving themselves lol

As a new player it is incredibly difficult to gauge your skill and formulate/follow strategy when you simply do not have the gear. Quite often you are forced to resort to a non-conventional strategy (that almost never works) because you are either trying to avoid taking an insane amount of damage or you simply do not have the damage output yourself. You are then almost forced to do something stupid like pick the squishiest target and pray they make a mistake / you get good RNG.

I’ll use myself as an example (2550+ experience): I have three rogues (don’t ask why) - one in the some of the very best gear currently attainable, the other two in moderate gear to absolute scraps. The difference between the three is HUGE and there is a measurable/noticeable difference in game-play. Playing the other two is not fun because even if me and my team play PERFECTLY, we lose as we lack kill potential with my limited resources.

It’s not a stat gap as much as their problem is a knowledge gap. Playing meta comps to increase their success, then practice, & learning how they deal with every comp etc is all the things these players you’re targeting aren’t willing to do and is the REAL reason they are hardstuck 1600 or w/e.

Having gear is part of learning and practicing strategy - if you simply do not have the damage to burn someone down (again, even if your strategy is executed perfectly), how can someone learn that they are doing something correctly? If gear was much easier to obtain, newer or inexperienced players would be on a more level playing field and it would be much easier to practice / theory-craft- / etc. to improve gameplay and be more competitive.

I’ll use myself as an example again - I have NEVER played a caster before (because rogues), so I decided to make a shadow priest. Even though I’ve now increased my MMR to 2100, I flop around like a fish out of water in deadly gear because if anything connects to me I explode. I’m not doing what I am supposed to be doing like using GCDs to dispel the kill target or be offensive as I’m too busy using my limited defensives (while also trying to remember key binds and lacking overall situational awareness). Even with some very experienced friends coaching me along I have to tune them out half the time so I don’t die. If I had an extra 4000K health and the matching offensive stats, then maybe I’d have more pressure to be on the counter-offensive and be able to focus more on what I should be doing.

Unless your goal is to increase bracket sizes for our titles

That is, in part, the goal - top tier players should not be queuing into the same 20 people (or their alts) over and over and over again. It gets incredibly stale and leads to burnout or not bothering to queue until two week notice. So even on the opposite end of the skill spectrum, lack of participation leads to even less engagement. Bottom tier players should have an even larger group of players to play against as well as to play with. By making everything more accessible it simply makes the game more fun for everyone.

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Idk almost everything you mentioned is cured by practice.

I play with a large group of players across all skill levels and I actively see people learn & improve constantly and get to their goals so its hard to care about the woes of people not striving to improve, which they aren’t. Don’t know what to do? Look up strats. Watch videos of your comp, look at globals vs each comp etc. There’s lots of ways to gain the knowledge required to play your comp correctly it isnt just butting your head against the wall trying to improvise your way to the top.

I appreciate your response it was worded well, just don’t think we agree.

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Rofl

Genuinely curious what problem you think retail arena had that Classic does not.

This mentality is a big part of why WoW PvP isn’t a fraction of what it could have been had it been treated with the respect it deserved.

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Classic is the land of delusions at times lol.

Classic to try and fix arena has allowed x realm via friendslists. that most make by going to discord for arena rooms…and making friends there.

Okay, that is fine. 9 years of eve before I came to wow side. I never used its chat either. TS/Vent/mIRC/etc was used.

but then they go wow is not social in chat as much. Yeah…that happens when people are told to go to discord. come for the basic functionality needed to play…then stay there for fun rooms they find as well lol.

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On every single arena thread here, grandpa OP hops in and lets us know he got classic glad multi times. Do a search and see

Wth do you think solo shuffle does.? It removes the barrier to entry foe everyone and i guatantee the participation would skyrocket.

And YOU COULD STILL HAVE TEAM PLAY.

Get more people into it with solo que. They learn a little and eventually some want to go the next step and will lool for a dedicated partner and join the team vs team groups.

What has more activity normal battlegrounds or rated battlegrounds. Beimg able to que for normal doesnt affect rated. And if you want to argue against something like solo que, that literally guarantees more paeticipation, then it just gets straight to the r real issue that you really dont want others to play and have an equal chance. You want yoir ideas and your ideas only.

Hell, your bud claims that the only way possible to be successful is by having dedicated partners, then i show that people are crying about the best titles being bought by bad players. That totaly counters his statement. His response is , i dont care. Which is it? He just showed that just like you, you dont give a damn what average people like me want. Because he is right, you guys dont care. Its your way or no way and any option for us casuals will be met with insults and mockery because u r to high and mighty to let others do something yku dont even have to join. Unreal.

I would love solo shuffle, even though it would kind of suck as a warlock. “Train the lock”

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Jeez man. Every post you make is exactly like your reply here.

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The idea of lowering the carrot on the stick is to encourage more players who would otherwise never step into an arena match to give it a shot. If people see “Hey, I can get a sweet 252 weapon at only 1600. I can do that!” they’ll find themselves queueing up and giving it a go. This was very true in TBC as the 1800 weapon was relatively competitive in PVE depending on the season (s2 especially). Even if only 1/100 players find that they enjoy arena to keep going after that I count this change as a tremendous success.

As to me mentioning my experience it was just to give some level of credibility to this thread. I didn’t want people thinking I’m just looking for welfare handouts for myself. I genuinely just want more people playing and enjoying the game, and I truly think reducing the barrier to entry is the #1 issue classic arena faces above everything else, including meta issues. A lot of casuals players are totally unaware of the meta and just want to hangout with their bros and have a good time while progressing their character.

@Bouron
Solo queue is great for a lobby game like retail where you queue up for everything. Classic isn’t like that, it’s supposed to be a social experience. We need to start by adjusting the system we already have before going down that route. Once you do there’s no going back. Retail arena is outright dead outside of solo queue, it’s become the only active bracket. They even had to add in additional inflation to help those still playing get their cosmetic rewards as the ladder was just so dead.

And trust me dude, if I had it my way every single one of those RMT boosting rats would be long banned. Boosts are a plague upon the ladder, we’re in agreement there. Retail is just as infested.

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Everything i said is as true about the game as it is in life lol funny you think it’s a bad mentality.

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Clarifying your experience is normal when asking for or giving pvp advice. Common sense would tell you this I’d hope.

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There’s no reason for it to be true, and that it is true is and has been detrimental to PvP for its entire lifespan. PvP is not PvE. Competitive play has different demands than non-competitive game modes like PvE.

Just play another game like League or something if you want hardcore PvP. Only thing saving Wrath PvP is cata and who knows when that comes out or if it’ll have a resurgence of players

That is an entirely different game and not the purpose of this discussion. The two games don’t play remotely the same. I say that as someone who enjoys both.

Only thing saving Wrath PvP is cata

Cataclysm was horrendous. I know very little people in the PvP community holding on to Wrath in hopes of Cata being released. Many people I know including myself will not be returning for that expansion. I played through TBC and its fair share of nonsense to reach Wrath and re-experience it. Wrath had its flaws in the past which we are unfortunately re-experiencing, and this post suggested relatively straightforward fixes with the goal of making the last season and a half more enjoyable. If Blizzard has the energy and resources to re-invent the PvP system for classic, then they can just as easily take some of these points into consideration and make changes to Wrath.

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