But glaives are obtainable outside of buying them for real money. You just kill the boss.
Per this definition, every game that has ever existed is PAY TO WIN.
Do you think rmt only happen in WoW? You are sorely mistaken my friend.
If I could buy a level 70 character from the Battle.net store each phase with all bis items, ashes of alar, gladiator title etc. You would not consider this to be pay to win?
But you can’t can you?
No, but you can do the same exact thing except with one added step in between. You use the RL money to buy in game currency and use that in game currency to buy the gear. This currency is also very easily converted back into RL money. Just because it has one added step in between, is it any different? If I bought a character like I described (with all bis items, ashes of alar, gladiator title etc.) from a 3rd party website, which you CAN do, is that not pay to win? You can get all of these things in game in a raid.
The difference is that you are paying real life money for the in game currency that is used to purchase any of these things in game. That in game currency that was purchased with real life money is giving you a significant advantage in the game. That is the P2W
Except it’s not because there’s nothing you can do with real money you can’t easily do without it.
That’s where we disagree I guess. I think just because it can be achieved in game without paying real money, that it is still paying to win / paying for a significant advantage in game that you would otherwise not have had if you had not paid that real money. To each their own, but there is not set definition on what P2W is.
Sure but the term was coined specifically for games that had some mechanic that essentially required you to pay, want that super rare item? pay for loot boxes, want to play more than 5 dungeons a day? pay for it etc… Which doesn’t really apply to WoW.
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In that case everything is pay to win…
You can’t really say something is pay to win when the thing you’re paying for is already in the game for everybody else to get for free…
Words mean things.
Buying raid consumables is pay to win
Buying a mage port pay to win.
No it is nothing like that… It is paying real life money for an advantage in game. Whether you would be buying items, carries, etc for real money or spending real money on gold to then purchase those with the gold. The main thing is that you are spending real money on the gold that is used to purchase the things in game. Being able to afford those things only because you spent real money is a definite advantage, no doubt.
Those things like raid consumes, mage ports, are not pay to win because you are not spending REAL MONEY on them. If you bought gold to buy those then yes it would be, but it isn’t pay to win spending gold earned in game for those. I think you are fundamentally failing to grasp this concept lol.
If you’re buying gold then the gold is used for everything lol.
And by your definition everything with the gold is pay to win.
Took a flight path? Pay to win.
Bought haste potions? Pay to win.
Paid for a port? Pay to win.
P2w isn’t any of those things tho, nothing in wow is p2w
Yea if you BUY GOLD then your whole game experience where you spend that gold is in some way “pay to win”, but this does not give that much of an advantage. You seem to be broadening your view on this and using semantics to try and make some point that I am not even focusing on.
What is most important and stressed much more is the buying of raid gear, mounts, and pvp boosts with that gold. Those have a much higher impact on players performance and their ‘prestige’ in the game which is why that is all I have mentioned when talking about this topic. More specific, being able to buy gear with in game gold bought with real money does give a clear and obvious in game advantage to those who are not able to afford and outbid anyone on any piece of gear that they want. I haven’t even mentioned the level 58 boost and that mount that is only obtainable by spending real money on the boost because it doesn’t have the same impact on end game as spending real money on gold for gear in GDKPs does.
Just because something can be earned in game does not mean that buying it with real money cannot also be considered an aspect of pay to win. Like I said for the other guy, you just have a different definition for pay to win apparently. That is fine, but for me I consider paying real money for a marked and noticeable in game advantage or ‘prestige’ pay to win’ as well regardless if it is obtainable in game without paying real money or not. The process of fast tracking that character progression and being able to jump to the front of the line on any raid item that you want is enough to fit the definition for me.
What do you mean? That warrior from EU with mainland glaive and quest greens who won his glaive in a gdkp surely did it legally.
This is where youre wrong.
What advantage do you have if you bought glaives VS someone who got glaives loot council’d to them?
Your glaives are no better than theirs.
You were their for the kill for the glaive to drop, just like them…even if a buyer wasnt there to buy the glaive it was still going to drop and go to someone.
The point of pay 2 win is that the items arent a drop, its sold in the store of the game youre playing, that is the “win” part of pay 2 win, you buying the item from the shop gives you player power over someone no matter how much they play the game because the item that was bought is stronger than any item in the game they can get playing normally.
This is why the phrase was coined from mobile games because when you bought an item it literally made you “win” agaisnt people who played normally.
You cant pay 2 win in a game that doesnt offer stronger items from a store…all the items you can get are literally in the game.
This is 100% false, they are BEATING the BOSS that DROPS the item for them to BUY, they arent somehow making the items drop, you can take a GDKP and turn it into a guild run and those items would of still dropped no matter what loot system they used.
GDKP’s, Guilds who use DKp, guilds who use Rolls, guilds who use Loot Council all show up to Illidian and kill him and he drops a glaive for each 1, no matter which method you use to distribute the glaive the fact is the glaive dropped to be looted by someone who KILLED the boss.
There is 0 difference in any of those guilds loot systems, they were all there for the kill of the boss that drops the item. A gdkp just bypasses you not having loot rights to the item in your guild since its based off a gold bid. Its no different then spending DKP on it.
You could take 2 toons from 2 different guilds and both have glaives and you wouldnt be able to tell which one got theirs from a GDKP and which 1 raided in their guild.
Yea just because the item would drop anyways doesn’t mean that they aren’t literally purchasing the items indirectly with real money aka purchasing the advantage (paying to win).
Like I said, you HAVE A DIFFERENT DEFINITION of what pay to win is. Get over it. For me and what I see as pay to win, those that buy gold and spend that gold on gear in GDKPs are getting the in game advantage by outbidding anyone else using gold bought with real money. They are getting the advantage by getting ANY piece of gear, items, carries, etc that they want with almost no competition. I think I have already made myself clear though on what I consider pay to win and I have also stated at least once or twice that I believe there is more than one set definition of what P2W is and that it depends on who you ask.
You simply think pay to win is something different than what I think it is. There is no set in stone dictionary definition of it. You don’t get to create the definitive definition of the term. Nobody does - there are many interpretations of what pay to win is.
I searched “What is pay to win” on google and the first few results showed a combination of BOTH ideas of what pay to win is.
Here are a few:
- Pay to win is any system where a player can purchase something that is not superficial or cosmetic.
- Real money → In-game benefits.
- Can you buy something with real money that makes you stronger than you could be without spending money? Then its pay to win.
- coming first or getting more kills in multiplayer or progressing through a game more easily.
- in online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items that give a player a very big advantage over others
- Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate
There is no one set definition so stop trying to act like there is.
I’m so confused by this.
If you don’t want to compete via gold bidding, then just wait a few weeks and join MS/OS pugs instead? Also, the content hasn’t even been out a week – 6 months from now pugs will be running that raid to the ground (BT is one of those raids that will forever be run until Wrath now, as almost everyone will need something from there even with ZA/SWP out).
This will be one of the easiest Legendary items to get ever simply because it’s “just” a drop…no quest.
You’re just upset because…you can’t skip over people to buy it like other people? I don’t understand.
Everyone in here defending this buys gold. Case closed
nah the only way people get to multiple gold caps is by swiping to buy or running an actual rmt op lol
if someone is actually doing gdkps on multiple alts every week and saving all the gold then they probably don’t work or know what trees look like
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