So based on this, if I go make a post that mage would feel better with 100 yds, then everyone else arguing against me is arguing that mage feels better with less range?
This is a disingenuous assertion at best.
The argument against adding more range is that it feels great to play as is if you actually use the mobility kit well, and as such the players that feel they don’t need more range to perform are unwilling to sacrifice any consequential mobility or damage nerf to give more range to players that haven’t figured the current kit out.
You can try and spin that however you want, but it won’t change it.
This is exactly what people want to avoid.
Again, why should players that don’t need an extra range crutch be penalized because people that aren’t doing well with the DPS specs think that they magically will get better with 15 more yards (or that the spec will be more fun for them)?
Why isn’t a choice node that would let both sides reasonably play the way they like a more amicable solution?
Find it hilarious you accuse me of a straw man argument and then you pull this entirely fake equivalent fallacious point up as if it is relevant.
Let’s say evoker with 25 yards does 100k DPS. Let’s also say they increase the range to 40 yards, which increases uptime and thus damage by 10%. If they tune the damage down 10% to compensate, you are still doing the same 100k dps you did previously, but with the added benefit of equal range that your caster peers also benefit from.
It seems you’re interpreting a reduction in damage or mobility would be reduced below that 100k hypothetical if range were increased to 40 yards. That’s simply not the case.
What I and many others are suggesting is that the class would feel better with the 40 yard range/100k DPS than the 25 yard range/100k dps the class has currently.
Explain this, because I haven’t seen a single good point on this being the case. The spec is clearly designed to be mid range, the entire kit is catered to being mid range; people keep saying it needs more range as if it were somehow an oversight by the devs and not an intentional gameplay feature. You’re not supposed to be 40 yds away on this class, you’re supposed to be close to the target and using your mobility to dodge mechanics, one of the only forms of skill expression the class has is uptime.
If I, a completely average player, can achieve aotc, elite, and keystone hero in one season, all exclusively on dev, then there should be zero issues for players even more casual than I in heroic dungeons/lfr. As far as I know top level players aren’t being this vocal about the range either, so they play around it as well.
It is completely a skill issue, and that’s not an insult or a bad thing. It just means the class has a steeper learning curve than just “stand still and press buttons”. When I asked if people genuinely try to improve before complaining, that is a legitimate question. Because the class performs just fine (better than fine I’d say) at top level and at lower level it’s not even close to being an issue.
I honestly think everybody begging for more range just want it because it’s a “feels good” thing that would absolutely come at a cost and that would just be detrimental to the class, and if you can’t understand that then you don’t understand the basics of game design
Honestly it’s not even worth trying to explain this to them.
Because they can’t find enjoyment/success in mid-range, they can’t fathom that people enjoy the way it plays now and don’t want it to change.
The mindset is that blizzard should compensate for their inability to play/enjoy the current iteration, because they refuse to try and improve or just play something else
The people that enjoy the spec as designed must be the ones to compensate for their skill issue.
But I do enjoy the class. It’s my main and I play it a lot and I do end-game content. I still want more range though. Why, because it’d be easier to PvP, and keep up with fast moving dungeon groups while doing damage, and less stressful to kite because I wouldn’t have to stay in grabbing distance, etc…
Plenty of reason why the class would get better and not worse with a more significant reach and any argument that it would be worse and not better are hard to swallow with such little evidence of supposed nerfs.
Speaking from the point of view of looking at a middle ground, I could see some degree of range increase being tied into a choice node with an existing talent (second hover charge or another equally valuable talent) as an option. That’d be one of the avenues I could see Blizzard taking if history is any indication of how they are going to introduce options going forward.
I still don’t think Devastation or Aug really need range increases, but it may be something they explore later on if they get tired of designing a majority of fights the way they did in DF.
i decided to play prevoker last season to get back into healing and this was my biggest complaint to the point i was willing to give up the range on the other 2 specs if it ment pres would get 40yd range. i hated grouping with people who were range especially hunters. there was a couple of groups that went full range dps and i just bailed on the group before it finished forming because it wasnt worth the stress. playing triage for who i let die so that a pull isnt a wipe is the farthest from fun. im not a fan of the df dungeons so i havent even tried to heal them this season because i know its going to be a crapshow.
ide argue that for prevoker specifically it doesnt work just on the grounds of having to work harder than every other healer when u have range dps in the group. as prevoker i love a all melee group because everyone is nice and close so i can throw everything up on them and not worry about having to angle stuff to hopefully get 3/4 of the group or get annoyed they decided to move just as i threw out ta so they missed it. i hate that a pally can stand next to me and do his rotation or that on chain pulls as dps i have to run longer to dps than other casters as dev because im not in range.
what are you a feral main? that sounds like something a feral main would point out. i dont see to many new people playing feral just the old veterans of feral for 10+ years who are to invested to leave.
They just put a lot of effort into making mastery not as important for Dev, so that seems unlikely. Good idea, but the climate makes that particular angle not very good. However, if they tied mastery to hover speed kind of like DH…
Since they are going to be focusing on making pvp focused around solo rbgs increased range does make sense. In high level play the shorter range is felt in a bg environment. Will it keep someone from hitting max rank? Not at all. Will it hold the average player back? Yes.
The range increase is inevitable and will happen sometime in tww im calling it now.
As I’ve explained to the other brain-dead people who think this is some “skill” issue; it has nothing to do with skill. It has everything to do with having the range limitation is absolutely pointless and just feels bad. Its a con that has no pro. It’s just hindering for no reason at all.
You can position yourself well all you want; you also have to rely on how others in your group position themselves. When you’re doing the 2nd boss of Nokhud during tyrannical and lightning storm is channeling, you’re as close as you can be to the boss, you have to also force everyone else to be extremely close so it makes it much harder for them to grab orbs; and someone walks right out of range as your spiritbloom goes off because they wanted to grab an orb during lightning storm. GG, now you’re behind and theyre almost guaranteed going to die. This is just one example. Obviously you’re constantly battling ranged players in your group as well and having to constantly remind them to play in range. After 4 seasons and playing prevoker, it all just feels bad to play. That’s it, plain and simple. And things that feel bad to play should be changed, especially when there isn’t an actual reason for it. It’s not like Prevoker has the best throughput or is “best” at any other type of healing/mechanic.
On another note; you claim this is a “skill” issue, but have you genuinely played your evoker outside of casually doing raids and tried pushing to 3k I/O at all with your evoker? Or are you just a casual weekly raider which in turn you don’t actually feel how bad the range is because you’ve always got 3 other healers with you in the already easy content like heroic raids. And have you done it for all 4 seasons?
It’s cute how condescending you act and think its a skill issue yet you’ve done the bare minimum content on your evoker so you clearly haven’t felt how bad it is to play. You dont even play M+ on your evoker. The most you’ve played yours was season 2 and thats solely because of the legendary i’d bet.
Not only this, but you’re devastation. This post is aimed at prevoker. You dont understand this post because you’ve never even touched prevoker and you’re playing the easiest and lowest APM dps spec in the game. So the range is absolutely null for you. You feel the effects of the lower range MUCH LESS than Prevokers do. You have absolutely no clue how bad the 30 yard range feels until you’ve consistently healed keys and even raids on many of the fights as a prevoker. When you’re playing as devastation, all you have to worry about is where to mobs are and the mobs are almost ALWAYS grouped up extremely tight on the tank. Players aren’t NPC’s that stack on a tank.
And you’re so ignorant that you thought I was actually talking about devastation when talking about the range lmao. No buddy. How about go play preservation for a while and you’ll understand what I mean.
Can you actually explain WHY this class having the range limitation is in any way a good thing that actually adds something to the game? Or are you going to use some trash excuse like, “it adds FlAvOr”? You can say it was intentional by blizzard. And blizzard have been wrong many times when it comes to design of certain specs/class limitations. This is definitely one of them.
It’s obvious you didn’t read anything past my first post so I’ll summarize: I’m not talking down to people, I’m saying that if people just spend enough time on the class then the range becomes natural and you adapt to it, calling something a skill issue is not equal to calling someone flat out bad. Sorry I struck a nerve.
Second, how does anything you brought up invalidate anything I said? I literally said I’m an average player, so you calling me a casual is completely unwarranted and quite frankly seems to be a failed attempt at an insult, but unfortunately for you I’m not terminally online playing this game, hence why I haven’t played recently.
Third, you calling me out for not having 3k io is bizarre considering even you don’t have 3k io, and you’re implying that just because I haven’t achieved it means I can’t; when in reality I just stopped at 2500 because those were all the rewards I wanted. But yes, let’s just ignore the content I did and look at my current io/raid clears and flat out call me wrong because you couldn’t bother to read past my first post, likely because my first one rustled your jimmies so bad you had to immediately reply.
In what world is someone saying “listen, if an idiot like me can do this, then anybody can. Let’s not make a massive change to a class before doing something as simple as putting time in to learn it” condescending? Take a breather man.
And this applies to all specs BTW, not just dev. I don’t know why you think you’re special for playing a healer which, by the way, by default has more range than dev and I still haven’t had a single issue with the dev range. It’s not like I haven’t healed either, because if you bothered to actually take a better look at my raid progress I’ve healed most of Aberrus as pres during season 2 and I’m still not complaining.
Oh and I only just got the legendary at the tail end of season 3 so your comment about my season 2 m+ progress is not only wrong but also laughable