Us: “Heres are multiple sources both in game and out of game that not only support but also confirm that all natural life on the planet came from the Titans”
Baalsamael: “Well thats just like, you’re opinion man”
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‘This is the titan perspective’ is clearly a dumb retcon they did to justify more retcons that people cling to when there’s no actual dispute to the fact at hand. Clearly obvious given it was written as a definitive lore compendium originally. And has facts no titan servant could even reasonably get.
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You seem to be misremembering. I’m not sure were you are getting this from, but there isn’t a connection. Excuse my tone, I didn’t know how to word it any other way.
Life forming from elemental’s is also a possible option (changed through the well, or not).
Well it’s what Danuser said
Correct but its the cards we were dealt.
What I predict: Trolls are originally “from” another world or even death itself. It would be a play on that the Titans believed Azeroth to be lifeless because all there was were Elementals (not life), Old Gods (not life), and Death-sentient-beings (not life).
Doesn’t give any strength to clutching to it. Adds nothing until actually downstream retcons happen.
Assuming drogbars are the troll precursor/rock trolls it would mean the troll did evolve from elemental(which is what the drogbar seems to be, an evolution from the elementals).
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Thank you for the link and your time looking it up. Hm it’s a strange name for a quest for them, that’s for sure. Well with no other context that is. I know, the Troggbar was in a hard place, but still.
Didn’t we learn somewhere, something more about the Drogbar? I can’t remember exactly. It would be strange to not mention it, for example in Chronicles, though.
Not neccesarily. Blizzard has always been keen(for whatever reason) to keep the troll origins a mystery. They could have just answered it in Vol’jin book but they did not and side stepped the issue by saying it did not matter what they were before.
I can think of three possibilities:
- they wanted to just hint at the drogbar/troll connection and just left this one quest as a clue.
- they were planning on adding a storyline connection the two and dropped it/decided not to make it canon.
- someone was just sloppy and didnt realize calling them rock trolls have all sorts of implications.
Drogbar are titan creations as stated by Xalatath, albeit failed ones. Current theory is they are evolved Troggs
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Eh, opens the door for speculation.
Meta-wise it gives us an idea that they won’t/can’t deviate from Chronicles too much, and will likely use the wiggle room chronicle itself has (e.g. the small box in the Emerald Dream page that speculates within Chronicles itself that the Dream was made from something already there)
Xal’atath whispers: More of the titans’ failed experiments grow here unchecked. The drogbar prove their failure as creators.
Well the issue here is Xal’atath, is not exactly the most reliable/believable person. There would still be wiggle room to make it work, maybe the drogbar were created to help fight in the elemental war but didnt turn out great and then just let loose by the titans?
The problem with trolls is their lore as I recall starts after the elements were bonded. There is too much left unsaid to figure out where they came from.
Any speculation I’ve seen come from the perspective bit has only ever been flat denial of what we know know for what someone wants. Again, at which point a downstream correction will be needed either way. That’d be true even without that. It just opens unnecessary and pointless doubt.
In the Legion Alpha drogbar were originally just going to be a clan of Shadow Trolls, but blizzard changed them to what they were for unknown reasons. Possibly because someone forgot they were supposed to have all been killed by the Twilight’s Hammer offscreen.
Has not been contradicted yet. This is still Blizzard we’re talking about here and they’ve already down the seeds of ‘multiple perspectives giving a different picture’ when it comes to the cosmos. Chronicles is on record as being biased towards the Titans and their ‘ordered’ perspective of the universe - that doesn’t mean they have all the answers or even perfect understanding of all phenomena.
Can we meet halfway? Since the Trolls originate on Azeroth and are influenced by the the energies of the Well of Eternity (which is basically just the energies left over from a huge wound the other Titans inflicted on her when they uprooted one of the Old Gods) can we just say that Trolls are natural born children of Azeroth who herself is a sleeping Titan?
Saying trolls are just a byproduct of Titan experimentation makes it sound like your trying to dismiss them as somehow lesser than their intentional constructs.
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Still that doesnt make sense with what I linked because they were called rock trolls. If the idea was to not link them to trolls at all they should have not even added that quest title.
Again, if it gets changed, it gets changed. We’re talking about what is now.
What I’m saying is that’s probably just an artifact that someone missed and not an intentional link between the two races. At no point do the Drogbar ever refer to themselves as Trolls that I know of an there is no Drogbar representative in Zandalar - if they were trying to link them don’t you think the oldest and most scholarly tribe of Trolls in existence would have something to say about them?
Well, what is now is just Titan biased is all I’m saying so you should already be taking it with a grain of salt. Chronicles is a lot like the histories of Odyn’s conquests in the Halls of Valor - there’s some real and pertinent information there, but it’s all skewed towards making Odyn look as mighty and good as possible.
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Unless I missed something in the body, the only reference I saw to rock trolls was in the title, which itself is a pun. So, punny quest title vs untrustworthy artifact weapon.
I’d go with neither, but if I had to pick? I’d go with Xal’atath’s statement as intent and the quest title being an alpha change hold-over. In-game statements tend to hold more weight to me than a quest title.
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funnily enough the original early concept art for the Drogbar are nothing close to trolls. They seemed to have originally been inspired by Bugbears. (They were a lot more animal like in their early art. Horns/Antlers, fur, etc.)
Yeah they almost look like Tauren-variation of Wildkin/Moonkin originally but walked it back
This ‘bias’ we’re talking about is what, the Titans lied in a historical record about where Trolls came from for no reason? They acknowledge other life exists beyond their creation. Even that other life was around on Azeroth.
This is the issue with the ‘grain of salt’. People instead want it to a pretty big amount of salt. Is it possible certain aspects of The Chronicle (which was originally written as a factual accounting for some time) are wrong or changed? Yes.
But we need actual contrary evidence. Until we have that, these are just headcanon theories. Just be clear on that.
But it isn’t because The Chronicles don’t even do that for the Titans. It talks about the flaws and failings of the Titans/their creations. That’s hardly comparable.