And if the Forsaken start wanting to expand their people by trying to free the minds of those Scourge they can, the Forsaken are doing something that I don’t think the current Alliance would have too many issues with; beyond simply taking some understandable precautions.
On top of this, Voss is very anti necromancy. Even with her as their rep, she is not going to allow them to raise the dead anymore … she’s just never really had an issue with those undead that already exist. The only “maybe” exception to this is she gets more Zelling like requests from those that are sick and dying; just wanting a little more time.
The Scourge just cannot be portrayed as a threat anymore after a full blown Legion attack; and conceptually and thematically the Forsaken getting back to their very origins and doing good work “saving” those Scourge that can still be “saved” is a good route to go under characters like Voss, Tattersail, and Velanora. Its a “noble” way for them to continue as a people.
The Horde were losing at Lordaeron when they had to deploy the blight, and after Jaina got them in the Forsaken army that outnumbered the Alliance (your big manufactured fear) got taken out by Mekkatorque’s machines.
The Horde had eight to one odds against the Ashenvale Night Elf civilians, and the Horde lost more soldiers than the Night Elves lost fighters.
The Army of the Black Moon was not present when Anduin and Alleria made their comments, and said Night Elf army was intended to counter Saurfang’s entire Horde army if they had arrived at Silithus instead of making its feint.
Everyone defeats the Nathrezim.
The Horde is pushed out of Gilneas during its Silverpine questing.
Stromgarde was a canon win for the Alliance.
Also, half of these points you brought up were not the Forsaken’s forces alone, but rather a combination with the rest of the Horde forces.
The mechanics of undeath remain an extremely confusing topic. With the helm gone the undead will have ‘free will’ but I don’t think that’ll translate into ‘capacity for rational thought’ for much of the Scourge remnants. A ghoul with free will is basically just a rabid dog freed from a cage.
Yeah and there’s some ghouls who seem benign if inarticulate. That’s not really more Forsaken though that’s more lesser undead I’m not sure would have great use in Forsaken society.
The thing is so far - none of this has really been addressed and I worry won’t be. The Forsaken starting zone will continue to be Cata and their population numbers will go back to how it was handled pre-Cata with the always handy ‘there’s just enough don’t worry about it’.
The Shadowlands with it’s Count Dracula and Necromancy Thunder Dome zones could presumably give us some answers though. I don’t know to what extent the loose Scourge will effect the plot but I’d be frankly surprised if it’s more than a pre patch event.
The Forsaken have supposedly been at risk of ‘dying out’ since Cata, but it’s never actually had an impact or mattered all that much. It was always one of the weirder plot points to come out of post-Wrath WoW, made even more wonky now that we have Shadowlands coming.
The Forsaken’s existence was, per their own mindset, suffering. They hated being undead and their only goal was to kill Arthas and destroy the Scourge before allowing themselves to fade away and move on. Then in Cata that changed, they did a complete heel turn, and suddenly were totally okay with making more undead and expanding their holdings beyond what they considered their lands.
We can easily assume that this heel turn was powered by Sylvanas, who they of course worshipped, who thought, at least in Cata, that all undead were destined for the Maw, the hell she saw Arthas languishing in during Edge of Night. But most of the Forsaken didn’t know that, and now of course we know this to be false entirely. The Shadowlands don’t send all undead to the Maw naturally, and thus far it seems she was shown the Maw purely to get her on the side of the Jailer, that’s it.
So if not for Sylvanas helping to break the machine of death, all the Forsaken could have moved on to the afterlife just like everyone else. If they were ever in danger of dying out at all, that is.
Well we see Dark Ranger Velonara saying she refuses to be a slave to this torment after Windrunner leaves.
Which makes me think a lot of the Forsaken’s suffering was self imposed. Keep in mind she murders every Forsaken, loyal or not, for the crime of learning that exisiting with their living loved ones is at least a possibility.
I’d love to see them expand on their new true freedom and find a sense of fulfillment in unlife.
This … isn’t entirely clear, nor necessarily true. Sylvie’s suicide local creates an unusual complication, in that she deliberately used Saronite in an attempt to sever her curse from her soul. This means that … the Plague of Undeath may run a bit deeper into their beings that one might think.
There are a lot of questions about “Undeath” that have remained unanswered.
Sylvanas saw no Arbiter, and she was only on the ‘other side’ for a minute before being yoinked back by the val’kyr. Based on what we know thus far, there’s every indication that her own soul wasn’t destined for the Maw initially at all, but her ‘look behind the curtain’ just so happened to see the worst part of the Shadowlands, and Arthas being there, because ICC is a mirror of the Tower.
As for whether or not undeath damns you to the Maw automatically, I’ll point you to Maldraxxus, an entire portion of the afterlife that’s essentially just the Scourge on steroids. Now, could Blizzard create a logical inconsistency with their lore like that?
Yes, all the time, at any point, forever.
But, thus far it’s looking like the Forsaken were basically in the clear for the afterlife, until Sylvanas screwed them over, and everything they did in her name post-Wrath was for nothing.
Or, Sylvie’s soul was intentionally torn from her destined afterlife into the Maw? We know its possible, even with powerful souls. Illidan was stolen from the twisting nether, and Vol’jin stolen from the De Otherside. The only shared trait of all these abductions is they seemed to have happened at the moment of death.
But, you are right, I do think it is very unlikely that Undead are sentenced to the Maw by default. I think it might be tricky to get them back into the natural life or death cycle due to their curse; but if released from it they should have no issues finding their way into their destined afterlife. Provided the system wasn’t broken.
I posit Sylvanas deserved to go to the Maw because of the things she did in the name of revenge against Arthas. She originally died in service to her people. Then I believe she lost that afterlife when she did evil things as the Banshee Queen in the service of no one but herself.
We see Forsaken souls in Bastion, so we know the Maw isn’t the default.
The thing is, she hadn’t done anything bad enough to be sent to the Maw up until that point. The worst thing she did was maybe plan the Wrathgate (which was a retcon anyway, I don’t care what the writers say). I say again, if Kael’thas was sent to Revendroth and not the Maw, after all he did, then Sylvanas wouldn’t have gone there either.
I believe Sylvanas deserved to go to the Maw since at least this part from the Arthas novel:
The human girl was on her knees. Keever stooped down, yanked her head up by her hair, and when she opened her mouth to cry out in pain, he poured a cup of something down her throat and covered her mouth, forcing her to swallow.
Sylvanas watched while she struggled. Beside her, the Forsaken male accepted the cup that Faranell offered without protest, draining it dry.
It happened quickly. The human girl soon stopped struggling, her body tensing, and then going into paroxysms. Keever let her go, watching almost curiously as blood began to stream from her mouth, nose, eyes, and ears. Sylvanas turned her gaze to the Forsaken. He still regarded her steadily, silently. She began to frown.
“Perhaps this is not as effective as your—”
The Forsaken shuddered. He struggled to stand erect for a moment longer, but his rapidly weakening body betrayed him and he stumbled, falling hard. Everyone stepped back. Sylvanas watched raptly, her lips parted in excitement.
“The same strain?” she asked Faranell. The human female whimpered once and then was still, her eyes open. The alchemist nodded happily.
“Indeed it is,” he said. “As you can imagine, we are quite—”
The undead spasmed, his skin breaking open in spots and weeping black ichor, and then he, too, was still.
“—pleased with the results.”
“Indeed,” Sylvanas said. She was hard put to conceal her own elation; “pleased” was a pale word indeed.