every tcer and mod ive seen actively tells people to play what they want, jsut dont spread misinfo about whats the best build. you can play whatever you want its a game afterall you just cant go in saying “my build is better than the guide build” because 10 out of 10 times. its not, infact usually stuff like this is painfully behind and actively harms people who are willing to put in the work to improve their own performance.
classcords only exist for people who want to improve and do anything to get better. if you just want to play whatever you want in a casual setting then frankly your just there for the community.
only the dumb ones, every tcer there ran the sims and you can make crackshot do 10% dispatch damage and its still ahead than other capstones. because it furthers the outlaw engine by a metric ton. crackshot would need to be outright removed or each outlaw cpastone reworked to actually DO something more. whispyr knows this, guy knows this, zac knows this, solo knows this, every person of note knows this.
you are even saying the same things every tcer is saying. the capstones need to be fundamentally changed to something else to be competative with crackshot.
REMOVING CRACKSHOT IS NOT A VALID OPTION, cause WOOPTY DOO! people LIKE crackshot. REMOVING AN ENTIRE PLAYSTYLE BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT is just dumb and shouldnt be encouraged or even humored. becuase thats basically like giving the middle finger at all the people who like the playstyle.
no one will smart will actively say “we want crackshot only” but only a denthead will say “remove crackshot completely”
Or you could simply identify what makes Crackshot a necessity, subtract some of it, and reincorporate it throughout the tree not necessarily just in the capstones.
Better capstones would be a plus, but the problem’s a lot deeper than making GSW more than what it is.
I never said that.
And people who don’t read, but run at the mouth anyway will just assume everyone wants to ‘remove crackshot completely’, which makes other players think they don’t want change, and they draw the conclusion that:
Any improvements to Outlaw will amp Crackshot in its current state. Unless you actively prune the talent back to some degree mechanically, it’s the default option.
Hate to break it to you and the other unimaginative calculators over there in the Ravenholdt sewers.
Says the guy that can’t stop humping Shadow Dance and singing its praises like its been a class ability since Vanilla.
Well, I loved the fishing for roll the bones buff playstyle we had in legion, it did not stop people from complaining and asking for a RTB rework and that’s what we got. You can call it dumb but that’s what happened and I hope they get rid of this idiotic talent called crackshot that makes no sense for outlaw
To be honest fishing for buffs in Legion was different though even if it was not ideal. Legion RTB buffs individually were stronger for starters. Second, reducing cool downs on CloS for example was a game changer too along with Evasion, Grapple, Sprint, BTE stun, vanish, etc.
The problem with RTB was that the performance of single buff was too low versus two and three buffs. The spec played at its best with three buff rolls in Legion IMO. They should have made a CD around three buff rolls as it was suggested a while back then.
But yeah Loaded Dice and/or Keep it Rolling should be baseline so the spec actually function with RTB buffs in TWW.
It makes no sense to make a toe to toe spec rely on vanish windows, we already have a stealth spec called subtetly, removing it and reworking the class does make sense. Moving away from it and introducing talents with better gameplay and class fantasy works too
“Its the toe to toe spec it ABSOLUTELY cannot have any stealth related features”
Thats how you fools sound. Its a rogue. I get not wanting stealth to be the main feature, but once again, youre playing a rogue.
Ok. So the next step is making other talents more synergistic with GSW instead of Crackshot so youre not taking both. The solution isnt to remove Crackshot.
It was toe to toe without relying on vanish to do most of its damage since vanilla, I don’t know where you’re at lol. Crackshot is also a fail in terms of design in pvp. Right now the spec is so trash that people don’t even bother to counter it. If one day outlaw recieves a massive damage buff you just need to cc him coming out of vanish to negate it, basically the same problem you have with arcane mage right now with interrupts.
Ok. And? They introduced Crackshot. Despite you not liking many it, many players do like the playstyle. Blizz should not remove the playstyle that works because you dont like it, as opposed to buffing/reworking the other talents that just dont work or are undertuned so you can have the playstyle you like too?
This point is wholely irrelevant. “It doesnt work in PvP. Delete it”.
Sorry to bring it to you but most players despise it, see how many complains where there both in this forum and on reddit by the time they implemented this skill. Yes, the point is extremely relevant, why would you base a spec around a skill that is bad and easily countered in one of the two forms of content?
I see a lot of complaints about it, as well. And I very much understand and willingly advocate for those changes, as healthy build diversity gives us options that feel comfortable to play.
I personally do not hate the talent as a whole. I hate the lack of options outside of it, and miss having access to Vanish specifically as a utility button.
If they could give me a Crackshot rotation, not reliant on stealth but instead on a window of ADR use, and then give us Celerity as a talent back… And then buff GSW a ton/make it a choice node with Crackshot. I think we’d have some seriously good options from there. Also, with UHUH needing changed to compensate for it, we could change it from holding ADR to holding RTB buffs. Celerity uptime would proc Crackshot, same as vanish resets. I can see a way of balancing it to also function really well with GSW.
I just hate the vanish weaving. I like the rotation. I hate the functional deleting of utility that I had for 3+ years to get damage from it.
One of 4. Youre making PvP a lot bigger than it really is. While players did complain about Crackshot, there exists the same amount of players that enjoy it, whether theyre vocal or not. People are really only vocal when they hate something. Thats not a sure sign everyone feels the same way.
That is my position as well. I don’t dislike Crackshot builds that lean into the Outaw/Sub hybrid fantasy. But they need to make alternative builds that do not rely on stealth and vanish windows. Especially for PVE.
that’s hilarious actually. because combat was just fine then got removed. you see the irony in what you are saying right? at this point they could remove outlaw, replace it with a new amalgamation of watered down ideas that uses all of rogues kits through its history, and combat rogues will still want combats simplicity of actually doing damage with our weapons, outlaw rogues will still want the gun play peak of BFA probably (even though you dont get a gun as a weapon but they want you to play the fantasy) etc etc. they keep changing it, making it latch on to a flavor and once it starts getting good, they kneecap it instead of really building on it.
like crackshot is fun but its rather boring at times. KiR feels pretty good when you hit the jackpot but it feels sloppy otherwise. and thats really it for options right? imo Combat/Outlaw however you want to look at it. was the 3rd spec of rogue that was supposed to be out of stealth the most. it being crippled to a 2 charge vanish subterfuge window to do damage with a gun and outside of that its like… “look im a rogue right guys?” type of feel, is really a feels bad mood. sin is in its best state, class fantasy, options in its tree lets you go where ever you want unless you care about sim culture. and sub just exists right now.
i would love to see a version of outlaw that is passive in it bones buffs, CtO happening more frequently passively till you got the right buffs to keep it rolling sounds like a nice alternative vs getting a bad roll and having to work with it. sure its not the same as rolling a natty 3-5 buffs but passively getting all 5 buffs from a good opener finisher spam with ADR then slap KiR when you are happy with your buffs sounds interesting. to me combat always was about the CDR of restless blades and ADR but it feels like they want to avoid a build specifically for that, im talking like kit wide CDR allow the rogue to be able to kick 2 times before someone elses kick comes off CD. let me get to my crimson vial faster if its my only heal. etc etc. allow me to blind way more often. like, let me use the kit and not just like 5 buttons. do people even use cheap shot/kidney shot in the game besides pvp?
Very interesting, where are “the same amount of players that enjoy it”? They are simply not playing the game then. Pathetic participation in mythic according to raider/io, pathetic participation in pvp according to drustvar, being almost the least popular spec, losing only to augmentation evoker. Time for a rework
Dont come at me with your decade old grievances. Those have nothing to do with me. I started in Legion. Tomb of Sargeras patch actually. There is no irony regarding what I said because i literally have no idea what “combat” is. Stick to your level 85 classic toon instead of bringing your baseless nonsense here.
Maybe playing the other 2 rogue specs? Have you thought of that? Outlaw aint the best rogue spec for once, clearly a sign of poor design right? The other specs doing well have nothing do with the lack of people playing Outlaw specifically right now. Introduce the new things youd like. Stop with this dumb stuff. “PlAyEr PaRtIcIpAtIoN” rogue has had the smallest playerbase since i started this game. Useless to talk about that metric on a spec specific basis as this is a triple dps class.
