did they? when? I did it like 7 hours ago and was fine.
Iâm not gonna evaluate who was right here, this reply was 100x more toxic than what they said.
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So first things first, I donât watch MDI players outside of the MDI. I have zero context for what youâre talking about. If you can make your example a tad more specific thatâd be fantastic.
The example the OP gave was his group of 610s struggling with +4s. Given how many posts Iâve seen of people getting KSM already (requiring average +7s) I donât think MDI players are being hard-stopped at +4.
Even if they are, itâs the first half week for MDI players as well. Theyâre not going to play perfectly. We can allow some room for the community to come up with better strategies or defensive/healing CD rotations before we reflexively nerf everything.
Iâm even going to leave open the possibility that certain mechanics should be nerfed. Iâve yet to see an M+ season (or raid season for that matter) where there wasnât some tuning done in the first week. But none of this is evidence to me of a widespread tuning issue in M+ wholesale.
I tend to be skeptical whenever any gaming community calls for nerfs and Iâm triply so any time that happens with content that released three days ago.
Again, the enjoyment and popularity of M+ is severely overexaggerated on these forums.
Why do you think they made Delves? If M+ was getting great participation, and keeping people subbed, they would have never bothered trying to make Delves.
All the marketing for TWW has been aimed at solo players, trying to get back the people that left the game because of how sweaty the end game has gotten.
WoW got popular because it was easy, even the hardest content that was available in past expansions was accessible to most gamers. You cannot say that now, the top end content is aimed at people who play this game as a full time job.
I donât think thatâs true at all. My entire guild is made up of average joes who play WoW as a hobby outside of their full lives with families and jobs. We consistently get AotC every season and end up doing keys in the +11-12 range before the next season hits. Itâs hard to say that weâre not participating in the end game when weâre finishing out in close to BiS gear and doing all of the highest-rewarding content aside from Mythic raids.
The reality is that the vast majority of WoW players have lives and itâs entirely possible to be successful in WoW without devoting your entire life to it. Itâs been true for years. Thereâs a reason all three end-game pillars have multiple difficulty levels and it isnât because they want every single player to only use the highest one after the first week of the season.
You mean on week 1 when they are still figuring out strats and limits?
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Yes, it kind of does. This isnât an âopen to interpretationâ sort of thing lol
Nobody said it wasnât toxic to insult others, only that certain individuals arenât really in any position to cry about people being toxic towards them. Itâs called hypocrisy lmao
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Heroic raids are just normal raids from the past. In the old days, prior to Mythic raids being added, the hardest raids could be tackled by most players.
Getting BIS isnât that hard anymore. The fact that you are saying you donât particpate in Mythic raids is backing up my previous point.
The game requires way more time out of you than past versions of the game. I would not call retail WoWâs endgame casual by any means, the harder difficulties at least.
Iâve been playing this game since 04, and I played through every Classic version too, the game was just way more casual in past versions.
Modern WoW is not an easy game if youâre trying to play the hardest difficulties. The percentage of KSM and KSH achievements prove that most people arenât bothering with this content. Mythic raid participation is laughable.
What is the point of this content? Like I said, Ionâs vision for the game hasnât been good for WoW. If you look at the popularity of Classic, it shows that WoW players want a more chill game.
Donât waste the keystrokes on this person, not worth it.
Theyâre overturned for their rewards, I canât even upgrade gear unless itâs +4 and up.
Itâs wildly ironic that you call that hypocrisy and not the ones who are actually making personal remarks while crying about toxicity. If you actually read the thread you would realize that I wasnât the one who brought up the term toxic. They did. Talk about hypocrisy lmao.
Iâm not sure how. Your point was that WoW endgame is only for the top 1%. My whole post was about how my guild and I are very obviously not the top 1%. Something you clearly noticed in your reply. It wasnât meant to be hidden so Iâm glad you picked up on it.
Itâs hard to say that my guild isnât engaging in WoWâs endgame. If you want to say that weâre not because we donât do Mythic raids then go off I guess. But if Mythic raids are the only content in the game I have no idea what weâve been doing for the past seven years.
I find that most games are not intended to be easy on their hardest difficulty setting. To segue right into the question you asked:
To provide players who want to challenge themselves with a challenge. It is not meant for every single player to reasonably achieve it. Thatâs why we have difficulty levels below them. Players are supposed to play at the difficulty thatâs right for them. Not shove every single player into a Mythic raid. The low rate of KSH and CE achievements isnât evidence that those difficulties arenât accomplishing their purpose since their purpose was never to be widely achieved by everyone. Regardless of CE or KSH rates as a whole, thereâs still a lot of players who engage with raid and dungeons at lower difficulty levels. Thatâs kind of the whole point.
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They still arenât overtuned.
Pretty much this 100%
Someone going âthese two are toxicâ while flat out insulting people is pretty hilariously hypocritical.
Considering they are basing out âtoxicityâ on calling out the incorrect information they are saying.
No where in this thread have I been toxic to anyone.
No one is crying. We are laughing while pointing out the hypocrisy of someone calling others toxic while throwing insults in the next sentence.
Itâs even funnier when neither of the people being called toxic. Are actually toxic.
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Yes, well, if youâre coming out the gates trashing and ridiculing someoneâs skill at the game, Iâm not really surprised that they would, in turn, push back against you lol
Iâm not saying itâs okay, but itâs to be expected. Not sure what else you were expecting in making such a comment lol
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Again, read the thread. I didnât start coming out the gates âtrashingâ. I challenged their opinion and was instantaneously met with vitriol and âignoredâ. Then other people saw it was me and dog piled. You are one of them who didnât understand the context and just assumed I started it.
I really donât care about the push back either. If you noticed, I still stick to the facts and call people out when they try to make things personal.
For you to realize your hypocrisy and blind dog piling. Again, they brought up toxicity and cried about it. I mentioned that they were being hypocritical and should lead by example. That isnât me crying about people being toxic.
What vitriol were you greeted with. Quote it for me lol
Thereâs a big difference between âyouâre not really experienced in mplus and what you said is incorrect based on xyzâ
And
âLolomgtrashcanbbq dude canât time a key didnâtâ
How is that for you? Are you still going to sit there and say I came out of the gate trashing?
You are missing my point entirely here. Any content done at level cap is really considered âendgameâ. So, doing LFR or normal dungeons could be conisdered endgame content.
My point that I was trying to make, is that WoWâs hardest content in the past was just way more accessible to more players. The only raid that didnât see a lot of action was Vanilla Naxx, but that was a timing issue on Blizzardâs part.
WoW wasnât designed to be like single player games. That is what made the older versions of WoW so good, they brought players of all skill levels together for the most part. You had to ultra competitive guilds in the past as well, but as a whole, most casual raid guilds could tackle the hardest content.
I would say you are playing the wrong genre then, if this is how you think MMORPGs should be.
Like I said, the game was much healthier before all the devs focused on making content for people who play the game as full time job.
Edit: Iâm not going to waste time posting back at you, I know your positions well and it is waste time trying to argue with players that love the state of WoWâs endgame currently.
Have a good day!