I have had this feral druid literally harrassing me by following me everywhere and using roots on me while i am mid air causing me to fall out of the sky and die. There seems to be no stop to it, and it instantly dismounts me everytime, am i missing something? or is this incredibly broken. Seemingly he is casting it out of flight form too.
Itâs worked like this since dragonridingâs inception. (Doesnât work against steady flight.)
Not just druids who can do it, either. Certain other roots work.
Also, you can avoid dying to it in any number of ways. Disengage, for one. Glider. Parachute.
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Okay thank you for the clarification, I should have clarified i was on my Paladin at the time, and he would get me again while i had forbearance going and glider on cooldown⊠it was pretty relentless how much he targeted me.
Iâd recommend just temporarily swapping to steady flight if someone tries to harass you with it.
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Really should be fixed. And I say this as a druid.
I mean you can crash head first going 900 miles an hour into the ground and take no damage, but if you get rooted in place you fall and die? Makes no sense.
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The only thing that should be really fixed as a druid is not being able to be dismounted through Whirling Surge or by Net-o-Matic (the whole touching the ground bs)
I donât necessarily think the root thing is a problem, I think it makes sense, but it should put druids in combat like it puts every other class who uses a root on a person in combat.
This is the biggest point here, druids do not go into combat when doing this root so one of two things happen:
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the druid goes right back into flight form and follows you to catch you
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If the druid has steady flight active casting roots does nothing and leaves them in flight form
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Long-lasting CC generally doesnât trigger combat for PvE reasons.
That doesnât mean this situation canât be addressed. Check to see if the player is flying, if you are flying and cast a CC spell then itâs combat for you.
Itâs not limited to druids either. Take monks for example. Their cloud is castable in air and can be used immediately after being knocked or CCed off since they arenât put into combat so itâs impossible to get a monk on the ground if they are paying attention. Whatâs even worse about this situation is the monk can summon certain mounts from that cloud, and if they are set to skyriding then after mounting from the cloud they are in steady flying until they touch the ground and then back to skyriding.
Iâm not coming after druids here, I have 2 fully geared for wpvp of each faction, Iâm just saying this isnât how it should be.
Thatâs really only if itâs a true loss of control effect, like Polymorph, Ice Trap, Cyclone, etc.
This is a root, I canât think of any other root at the moment that doesnât put the player in combat. My Trackers Net is a root and puts me in combat, same with Tar Trap, Frost Nova puts the mage in combat, etc.
Entangling Roots is the only outlier.
No? Itâs both Entangling Roots and Mass Entanglement which donât, and theyâve been that way since anything else was. They are Druidâs way of pre-CCing trash in PvE. (Cyclone, conversely, does trigger combat because itâs set to be short-lasting.)
Trackerâs Net isnât a long-lasting CC, and itâs a PvP talent to boot. Frost Nova is a short-range AoE, and Tar Trap is a short-lasting ground effect which all trigger combat.
It wouldnât change anything pertinent to the threadâs situation, to be frank. Typically you only do this at such a height as to kill someone, which is also a height youâd drop combat from. (Druids have Wild Charge regardless, so arenât going to die.)
By all means ask for it to be changed for an ideal world, but I doubt it will be. Blizzard doesnât care about PvP, and it cares about War Mode least of all.
Iâm almost certain that those spells used to put the druid in combat back when Entangling Roots and Mass Entanglement dealt damage to the target.
Water Elemental root wasnt short range but it still placed the mage in combat.
Doesnât change the fact that every root in the game puts someone in combat but Entangling Roots / Mass Entanglement doesnât
They did, because everything did. I forget precisely when it was changed, but they specifically altered the PvE vs PvP duration of various CCs to allow certain ones to last ~1min and be used for pre-CCing trash without aggroing.
Entangling Roots, and subsequently Mass Entanglement, were among those CCs.
All those other CCs youâre bringing up were not among them. Youâre trying to draw the distinction along the lines of roots, when that category just isnât what the determining factor was.
Thatâs because at the end of the day Entangling Roots and Mass Entanglement are roots. My point being, all roots in the game put the player in combat.
I get youâre trying to make the distinction between PvE and PvP, but Entangling Roots and Mass Entanglement are different in PvP, most obvious being it lasts the same amount of time as any other root. If itâs recognized as a root in PvP in the sense that it shares root DRs, and in the sense that it lasts the same duration as any other root, it should put them in combat like every other root.
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Do you understand my point� Because you continue to willfully ignore it, lol.
All things are limited duration in PvP. That is irrelevant to the point. Iâm telling you Blizzardâs reasoning for why it does not cause the player to enter combat, and that reasoning is the same reasoning for why things like Polymorph and Trap donât, despite their likewise limited PvP duration. They are all considered pre-combat CC for the purposes of PvE, so that players can pre-CC packs without danger.
You can argue that all of them should enter combat for PvP purposes, but that simply isnât the way theyâre coded.
DR categories have nothing to do with it. This is an arbitrary distinction youâre making thatâs irrelevant to why some things enter combat and others donât. Thereâs CC on Trap/Poly DRs that arenât combat exempt either. Because it isnât about that.
I understand your point just fine. You donât understand mine.
I donât care how it functions in PvE because Iâm strictly talking about PvP. Youâre acting as if Blizzard canât code things differently in PvE vs PvP. They already work differently in PvE vs PvP, one of which being one you already mentioned, the fact that the duration is limited in PvP. They also have PvP multipliers, multiple spells function differently in PvP than they do in PvE
For arguments sake, letâs create two fake scenario for a second:
Letâs say druid wants to go behind a pillar and drink, but melee-brain player A is trying to stop them. Druid is out of combat, can start drinking, but if he does, he wonât get very far because melee brain is on his way. Druid can peak from corner, root, and continue drinking.
Letâs say mage wants to go behind a pillar and drink, but melee-brain player A is trying to stop them. Mage is out of combat, can start drinking, but if he does, be wonât get very far because melee brain is on his way. Mage can peak from corner, root (letâs pretend it was frost elemental root), but canât continue drinking because now heâs stuck in combat.
Why should these two scenarios be any different? If one root is going to put the player in combat, shouldnât the other?
Your argument seems to be that because it was changed in PvE to be able to function a certain way, in PvP, it has to suffer and function the same, even though theyâre capable of coding things differently in PvP vs in PvE. My point is, it already functions differently in PvP because of the duration and the fact that it shares root DRs. Entangling Roots and Mass Entanglement may have a longer duration in PvE, but that isnât the case for PvP.
Cool. Iâm telling you why all these CCs that donât enter combat are the way they are. And unfortunately PvE is the reason. The same as other pre-combat CCs you donât seem to take issue with.
No where have I suggested they canât or shouldnât code them separately; they obviously could. Please donât put words in my mouth.
Quite literally all I was doing was explaining why they function the way they do, and pointing out that the distinctions of DR category and CC type arenât pertinent to that âwhy.â
Not even sure why weâre having this conversation considering whether or not it entered combat would be irrelevant to the OPâs situation, seeing as a Druid Mass Entangling from height enough to kill would (a) leave combat anyway before they hit the ground, or (b) just Wild Charge, which is a shorter CD than Mass Entanglement.
Dude, I know why certain CC doesnât make players enter combat. That doesnât mean I canât voice my opinion and say one CC, thatâs arguably an outlier when it comes to other roots, should be changed to put the player in combat.
Because those are loss of control effects. Every loss of control effect functions the same way, which is why I donât take an issue with it. Every loss of control effect, polymorph, frost trap, cyclone, sap, etc. work in the same vein that they are pre-combat CC effects and donât put the player in combat.
I feel like thatâs what youâre implying. I donât care about the reasons why a change was made, Iâm not questioning why it functions the way it does, Iâm saying it shouldnt function the way it does.
I didnât ask why it doesnât put them in combat, I said it should put them in combat and you continued to go on a rant about why it does.
But what if your logical understanding of the situation, and thus why you do or donât take issue with certain things, is built on a fundamentally incorrect premise?
Because this isnât about hard or soft CCs, either! Just like itâs not about DR category / CC type. Cyclone does enter combat. Fear does enter combat. Sleep Walk doesnât enter combat, despite being similar to and on the same DR as Fear. Some do, and some donât, and they have functioned this way for years.
Blizzard decided that most classes should have a designated pre-combat CC that doesnât trigger combat and lasts longer in PvE, and Entangling Roots â not Cyclone â is Druidâs. Thatâs it. Thatâs all.
Bro, what? You kept making rationalizations for why some things donât and why root should. All Iâm doing is pointing out that each of those rationalizations is wrong.
I donât mind if you think it should put druids in combat. Itâs nice to want things. I think Sap should break stealth and not have a 100yd range and also that stealth speed should still be slower, but none of those things are likely to happen.
Whatâs incorrect about my premise? Itâs really simple â I believe Entangling Roots should put someone in combat because out of all the root mechanics we have, they all put you in combat. Itâs mostly built on the idea of being fair. The example I gave earlier with the druid and mage was an example of why it could be unfair.
A better argument you couldâve made would be why you believe itâs fair for Druids to be able to root and not be sent into combat. Not necessarily why it functions the way it does, but why you think itâs fair.
For instance:
We could talk about why these CC function the way they do and why they trigger/donât trigger combat in terms of fairness.
We could say, âFear has no cooldown, causes the target to run in random directions, and also takes a threshold of damage before it breaks, which is why it puts you in combat.â
But then we could compare it to Sleep Walk and say, âWait a minute, Sleep Walk also makes you move and takes a threshold of damage before it breaks, why doesnât that put you in combat?â and then one could say âwell, thatâs because it has a 15 second cooldown.â Or something like that.
Notice how in these two conversations, weâre talking about why something is possibly fair in comparison to another, and not simply âitâs the way itâs coded!â as if the way itâs coded canât simply be changed.
Here, we can start it off:
I think Sap not breaking stealth is fine, but I agree it should have a shorter range. Stealth should have slower movement speed.