Too easy in a group, too difficult for a lot of classes solo. An 8 solo is a fun challenge for the right classes though.
3 Likes
It’s probably just the after effect of having a month of time actually getting coffer keys when M+ was locked that is creating this view of “Delves are an endless funnel of gear”. I know my friend had something like 8 or 12 keys or some noise by the time T8 delves opened.
Once players actually run out of their keys and are locked to only 4 pieces of loot for an entire week outside of Vault, then I expect the tune to change.
I don’t believe S2 will have such a stupid long timegate, so fear not. Soon M+ will be the target of infinitely easy gear again.
How many players are going to gear in delves and then do m+? I doubt many of them. Delves, Looking for transmog, and some pvp will probably be most people’s end game these days.
M+ is niche. I know some claim 30% of the community does it, but what, on M0? There’s no way that chunk of players are doing higher keys. I even do a few mythics one season. One season i did 2 of them, and im sure id be figured into that percentage as a m+ player.
5 Likes
I know it’s not a popular opinion, but it would be the best for the game.
They could then make the other roles work AFTER getting DPS right, since every class has a DPS spec, no one would be left out.
That’s the point of having a range of keys. More players can find a good spot in the challenge/rewards scale for their ability.
That’s false. Solo T8 Delves are easy at ilvl 587+, but you can die if you fail to the wrong mechanic or slightly overpull.
That would never, ever happen in a post TBC Heroic Dungeon, and even then, you wouldn’t get locked out of gear for too many wipes.
Heroics post-MoP became faceroll in a matter of days from their release.
As they are now, T8 delves will not become that easy until people are ilvl 616+ (As usual, that all depends on spec, since Delves are not tuned for each spec as they should) and lvl 35+ Brann.
TBQH, delves should improve bountiful gear drops and crest quality/amount on higher tiers, not stop at t8.
Depending on vault luck We won’t get enough runed crests from delves to get to 619. It’s not possible at 2 runed crest drops per run. It takes 8 delve runs to upgrade 1 piece of gear once.
I’ve been saying these for years now, but people confuse accessibility with free gifts, and can’t think of progression in terms of prestige, only power, unless you’re one of the RWF guilds 
That said top/best gear should still come from Mythic Raids first and M+ second.
Delves should never touch the Myth track.
That’s real life already.
What was said above.
This is a game though, you should be playing because the gameplay loop is fun, enticing and self-feeding.
Torghast was easily the best example of this kind of content, with a cool gameplay loop, but it wasn’t self-contained: the rewards sucked for improving Torghast gameplay itself.
Raiders should do raids because they like to co-operate with 10-30 other players to defeat hard bosses with challenging mechanics, not because the boss will drop a 1% dps increase piece of gear.
The same applies to M+/whatever.
Playing for the reward should only be a thing if:
1 - you can apply that gear to other content you find fun
2 - the content you’re doing is fun enough by itself.
3 Likes
I was thinking about the gear to rewards ratio for delves and I do think there is a little bit of disparity compared to M+ / Difficulty scaling.
For all of the hassle for M+ (Grouping / Community Push Culture) → Delves for sure is an easy dunk A+.
However, with the cap and limitations does offset a bit and I think is a fair system. Getting heroic gear from delves is on a seasonal track to defeat Zekvir as a seasonal capstone (A heroic level raid boss).
For those open world players to defeat a heroic level raid boss are going to need loot to do so and the key / delve limit per day / week provides a path to get there.
I think it’s also overall good for the game, if those players gain confidence without a timer, there’s more people to game with perhaps in other systems (Raid / M+).
Good On Ramp Content w/ a fair rewards system.
I see M+ pushers already into +10 and I think delves were an easy stepping stone for extra loot.
I don’t see the down sides of players getting capped loot.
^Disagrees in Warlock^
3 Likes
I wasn’t planning on doing mythic+ anyway.
(I have no opinion how the reward-challenge curve relates to that content)
Normal raid and LFR still has a place alongside Delves.
-Not everyone can solo 8s
-Getting carried through 8s is the same as getting carried through world tour
-A lot of players are fast food gamers that want to login and join queue
-Disability prevents some players from doing content that’s punishing(normal and LFR is more forgiving than 8s)
-A lot of people still prefer larger scale raiding over smaller 5m content
1 Like
I thought M+ was fun?
2 Likes
Because M+ has always been a faceroll loot piñata, Blizzard finally did something about it.
1 Like
If they won’t tune m+ I want everyone to suffer.
so BUFF DELVE DIFFICULTY
I mean, more the percentage of m+ players is not accurate. If i do 1 mythic plus for a weekly. Then that would be counted as a m+ player. I would need specific engagement metrics from a reputabel source to conculde that M+ is 30% of the community.
Barely anyone likes it from what i see. What the community likes is exploiting people who cant get into m+ or raiding, by charging gold for a run.
This is why i think people take issue with delves more than anything. Its going to satisfy the the casual crowd, and people who unwillfully participated in m+ because it was the only end game content they could do.
They can’t stand they have a legit upgrade path that doesnt include them.
5 Likes
I would say yes, most definitely.
I feel Delve gear should be nerfed a bit, instead of giving 603 it should give 597. Keep T8 vault giving 618, that’s fine.
I knew this would happen, M+ would drop in participation with the release of Delves, because at the end of the day it is a crap system.
I knew M+ only players would be getting upset, because now people have more alternatives to gear up rather than suffering through that god awful system.
I hate timed content with a passion.
5 Likes
I think it’s more than fine, my worry is a dev like Ion will listen to these players and get it nerfed. If it happens I’d probably cancel my account. I haven’t found an endgame progression path I’ve enjoyed this much since Vanilla Pre-Naxx.
High Mythic+ runners and Mythic raiders are already rewarded more, and even Heroic raiders since it’s quicker to gearer there than delves anyway and the last few bosses have higher ilvl. Even though on paper it seems like an only 20 level difference, I’m pretty sure that 639 Mythic gear is tuned a lot better than the 619 anyway.
There was no way casual gamers were happy with obsolete questing gear they got from flying through mosquitos in the sky. Come on.
Also WoW isn’t League of Legends and never was, I really loathe the people always trying to turn it into that and I’m not exactly alone. I quit before due to their gearing system, and obviously I wasn’t the only one. They were kinda forced to do this because not enough people were playing the stupid game.
Yes I am worried it’s a cruel trick. Once they suckered all the money from the “casuals”, I have a feeling they’ll change things again- and then create an expansion just solely for “tryhards” again. I really hope Delves are here to stay, with the same reward structure.
Maybe ask for them to improve Mythic+ rewards somewhat instead of asking to nerf delve rewards. It seems like they really only want people to play that unless they are turning into an e-sport though or is some high competitive streamer. So it’s kind of a win-win for everybody in their eyes, the elitist can be even more elite- and casuals actually have something to do now instead of hitting the ‘cancel subscription’ button.
7 Likes
No. I’m not doing Delves so I can gear up to do Mythic +. Most people don’t want me in their dungeon groups because I have amputated fingers on my main hand which makes it harder for me to do the things a normal player can do. So, to be fair I will not join a group to tank their chance at getting loot.
Even doing bountiful delves are a bit of a challenge for me and I’ve pretty much not been able to level my Brann that much. I finally was able to complete a Tier 7 normal delve after I did a “Time Walking” raid that provided me with 4 champion and 1 hero piece that I then upgraded with all my crests and stones.
I don’t need hero or mythic gear because the content I do doesn’t require it. While I would love to have fun playing with other players that do delves or dungeons, my in ability (it’s not a skill issue so stop telling me to “get gud”) to participate on a normal level makes me not want to hurt your fun.
4 Likes
You’re overlooking that you can only get Heroic gear from GV via Delves, but end of dungeon via M+7, and that you can’t get Myth track gear from Delves at all (currently)
That said, Delves are easier than the gear they reward, but only if you are already sitting on 12-16 coffer keys or more before you make the comparison. The moment you have to do the weeklies, it’s better to literally just farm +3s and way better time value
2-3 runed crests a day and 3 gilded crests per map at roughly 1 map every 10 bountiful delves (6 every 5 days) lowball estimate.
It’s not a huge amount but doing the math it’s enough to achieve what I said. Might even get a 636 weapon crafted towards the end of the tier.