Do the same thing they been doing since tbc
im sure the new zone has achievements to do. im looking forward to the new zone more then m+. and i dont care for the raid.
The plan is for casual/solo players to accept that they are second class citizens of this game who deserve second class content with trivial rewards. It’s been the plan for all of Shadowlands. It hasn’t worked yet but surely if Blizzard does more of the same, tens of millions of players who have left the game over the years will come flocking back, credit cards in hand.
Leet players deserve hot rewards for being gud, but the overwhelming majority of players should be playing for love of the game only, and never expect rewards.
That’s been the plan. How’s it working out for your buddies in Blizzard central?
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I think you guys just need to have realistic expectations given the content that you’re doing. That 2nd legendary is going to be pretty awesome. I just don’t buy the argument that giving away more gear will make people come back. When the game was at its peak, you’d be in questing greens if you had never done any group content.
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I’m not sure what this thread is really complaining about. We have a whole new open world zone with its own progression system and secrets to discover. That’s about the level of open world content we should expect from a X.2 patch, isn’t it? “Hardcore” gamers are also getting the same amount of content from an X.2 patch that we’ve gotten for years now. One new raid and two new M+ dungeons.
I think the best thing for the community would actually to become okay with the idea of on-again off-again subbing. WoW is a seasonal game. There’s nothing wrong with playing the new content when a new season starts and then taking a break during the off-season. I don’t know why everyone seems to have this need for WoW to be their only source of entertainment 24/7 365 days a year.
I think you raise a good point but I also want to dive into the two words you conflated into one there.
I think that there should be challenging solo content that gives rewards appropriate to that level of challenge. If we had more stuff like the Mage Tower I’d be absolutely over the moon. I don’t think that’s the same thing as casual players though and I’m curious what you mean when you say, “casual.” Doesn’t it make sense that more skilled players who accomplish more difficult things will get greater rewards?
I think we need more opportunities for solo players in this game but I don’t think we necessarily need to provide easier avenues to the same rewards that Mythic raiders or Elite Keystone heroes get. As it stands now, solo content is very very easy and there isn’t really a demand for gear of that strength in open world content. So what do you need the gear for?
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Torghast was never difficult, it was always, and still is a boring, annoying, and easy slog
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That’s exactly my thought too when I saw this. Seems like a silly complaint to me and hilariously ended up just being a troll thread, because OP never came back.
Then some random person came in and turned it into a “casuals want Mythic gear” argument, which wasn’t even the point of the thread, as far as I can tell.
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You didn’t see all complaint threads on week one. Surprisingly, lots of people couldn’t get through it…maybe that’s not surprising lol.
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I was excited for Twisting Corridors when it was first announced since I think Torghast had the potential to be engaging solo content, but then it turned out that the raw length actually made it easier than regular Torghast since compounding that many powers on top of each other makes it very difficult for anything to challenge you. The real “challenge” of Twisting Corridors was the fact that each run could take upwards of an hour and you had to do 8 of them. I just didn’t have the patience for that even though I knew I could do it.
Twisted Corridors hit all of the pitfalls of draining and boring content. It was easy, long, and tedious and there was no good way to save your progress or feel like you were progressing. If something went wrong and you lost a run then you got zilch and that’s very disheartening. So no one wanted to do it.
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I imagine you will just… play the game when it launches? No?
Why “fast track”? What’s it matter to you if someone else decides to skip world content and do what they enjoy?
I think you guys just need to have realistic expectations given the content that you’re doing. That 2nd legendary is going to be pretty awesome. I just don’t buy the argument that giving away more gear will make people come back. When the game was at its peak, you’d be in questing greens if you had never done any group content.
I’ve been following all the back and forth and I really would like you to clarify a few things that are confounding me:
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Where are people saying that giving away more gear will make people come back? I seem to have missed this.
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Your constant harping on 2nd legendary. Why is this even being mentioned?
If you look at Blizzard’s recent posts announcing the new patch, 95% of everything they said was aimed at raiders and dungeon runners. I too was confused as to ‘what is there for me’, because no where is it written that they’re building out more story, things to explore, stuff to do. The gear mentioned is in the raids/etc. Someone had to point me at a video they posted where they actually cover some of the non-raid/dungeon stuff.
I really am wondering where all this idea of ‘casuals want highest level gear’ is coming from. Is this a case of one person whose mom pays for their account whined and everyone latched onto this as a fact about everyone?
I’m just curious. As only one of my alts has a legendary (because to me, having to shell out buckets of gold for a piece above 190 wasn’t worth it) and the others either dumped theirs for Korthia gear or didn’t bother, I’m not one who goes for the ‘leet gear’.
I want to get gear good enough to let me survive all the elite mobs that some WQ throw you at and play the stories at my pace. But I want there to be stories, a variety of things to do and a sense of some progression.
Now it’s a different game, yes, but what realistic expectations are you saying we should have? Could you please explain?
edits made to fix typos.
The gear that you’re wearing right now will accomplish all of that in 9.2.
If the argument is that more work is being put in raids and dungeons…well yeah lol. Lots of time and effort goes into those things and it is a game that’s designed around group play. The solo stuff just never lasts very long. It’s only good for increasing your gear to the point where you can either jump into raiding or keys and even then…it’s only good for fresh 60’s and alts.
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It always seems to go that way, doesn’t it. Personally, I think that things to do and rewards to earn are two different conversations. If finishing the week one story quest gave everyone a full set of BiS gear then clearly you solve the “issue” of rewards for solo player content. But then what do you do after that? The game would die after the first week because there was nothing to do.
So I find myself asking the question of what solo/casual players actually want the game to give them. Clearly I don’t have the requisite perspective since I’m a raider myself and the main thing I use WoW for is to socialize with my guild and raid on the weekends. Raiding provides the content I need to do that week after week for months. But what is a solo player looking to get out of the game? If you’re not looking for challenge or sport then I imagine that you’re looking for a way to kill a few hours every day after work or whatever. But being granted gear doesn’t solve that issue. You would need some form of repetitive content that you could engage with on a daily basis. The rewards that content grants are a separate issue. I am legitimately curious as to what the end-goal is for solo players who make these sorts of complaints because what they say they want and what they’re asking for frequently seem to not line up.
Do you play any other games besides mmos? Like I can play the overwatch pvp a lot. No power grinds. Same old rewards. Tons of group content. They are going to add pve in ow2. You are already at the most gear because there is no power grinding.
In wow if you want to engage in systems like wpvp you need to be competitive with gearing. There is a grind to enjoy the combat. There is a grind to be able to solo more raids and dungeons. There is a grind to be as powerful as you ever will be in a patch.
I expect to explore the zone, check out some of the rares and maybe even kill some of them. Once I do the time-gated campaign quests, I will just log out until the next week of quests. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe one of the reputations will have an item that I fancy and I might log in more often to get that item sooner. The biggest problem with Korthia is that I didn’t find any of the rewards worthwhile so it was a drag.
This part of the expansion is when I would focus on Archaeology and that would earn my subscription fee. And yet, there is no Archaeology because Ion (a raid-logging player) doesn’t care about it.
For me— and I can’t speak for anyone else here— I am perfectly content to do my questlines, world content, dailies, WQs, etc. But as anyone, I do like something to work towards. The insane amount of cosmetics added in are something to work towards. And that’s good.
The issue is how they went about adding all of them. But I feel that’s an entirely different conversation about spacing out the rewards, instead of releasing all at once to overwhelm people day one in the sheer amount of anima they’d need. Had they spaced those rewards out over mini patches or releases, I think we would’ve seen less irritation. We would have been gaining the currency at a better rate to earn them in a more timely manner to make it feel rewarding and not like a huge mountain to climb.
But everyone likes to have progression in this game when it comes to power. It’s an MMORPG based off of level and power progression. The problem is that we no longer get level progression in any meaningful way anymore. The talent system is crap and everything scales with you. So I feel without that, people then focus on the gear progression so that they can then get past the point where mobs stop being just as powerful as you.
To me, the Korthia gearing system was great. It gives me something to work towards, I slowly progress gear in a way that I worked towards, I don’t step on raider’s toes and I get that sense of power progression that I haven’t gotten at all while leveling.
I know I cut off the rest of the sentence, so please forgive the fact that this is out of context, but I wanted to address my personal feelings on this particular point, because I feel it’s important.
There is no end goal for me. That’s the beauty of how I play. There’s always smaller goals, but no end goal, because there’s so much for me to do. 
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The gear that you’re wearing right now will accomplish all of that in 9.2.
If the argument is that more work is being put in raids and dungeons…well yeah lol. Lots of time and effort goes into those things and it is a game that’s designed around group play. The solo stuff just never lasts very long. It’s only good for increasing your gear to the point where you can either jump into raiding or keys and even then…it’s only good for fresh 60’s and alts.
Which is good to know, but well, somewhat irrelevant. And to me, group play does not mean ‘dungeons and raids’. Those are a subset of ‘group play’. Group play means being in a world where you can interact with others, group if you want, fight challenges together if you want, chat with others, etc. all without ever having to set foot in a dungeon or raid.
To say anything that isn’t dungeon or raid is not group play really don’t have a good grasp of what socialization is. I’m not accusing you of saying so, but you were implying that solo play means non-social, which is not the case.
I don’t say that there isn’t a lot of work going into dungeons and raids. There’s an art to making such things. However, there is also an art to balancing a world for play so that your dungeons and raids feel integrated into the world and story, where the world itself is interesting and balanced that you feel a part of it and that is where the big fail is. And your last sentence shows the major flow in Blizzard’s design model, especially in SL. They put so much effort into that, that the rest of the story/world/game suffered due to small areas, poor story and a small pool of very repetitive world quests.
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Well worded statement and good question.
Thallia said it well. There is no ‘end goal’ for me either. I want to improve my characters (I’ve lots of alts so that I can explore different classes/races and their stories), I do achievements, hunt down quests I haven’t done, explore…
I once, ages ago, swam a toon around an entire continent. I think it was the Eastern one because it fell into the water, there was no shore right there and I kept on going just to see what there might be to discover. I also found a route in the old Barrens where I could avoid all the mobs and get across the zone.
I like a rich environment. I like the social aspects of the game. I like the little nuggets of joining up with random players doing PvE quests and helping each other out, or even helping out when I can.
I also like to improve my play. I’m one of those who often find Torghast fun when I’ve the time because it teaches you more about your character than one would expect, especially with the random buff options.
I speak for myself, of course, but I gave examples to give you some perspective.
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That’s the thing confusing to me as well. Vanilla, TBC, and to an extent most of WotLK really didn’t have much of anything for these quote “solo” players, yet I’ve even seen some say they’ll just go back to playing classic. HUH?
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I think that’s still a good answer to the question I meant even if it wasn’t exactly the question I typed. You’d want the game to provide you with any number of small goals that you can reasonably pursue and accomplish on your own. I think that’s a fine thing for solo players to want. Like I said, I think Blizzard should absolutely look into providing more opportunities for solo players to engage in new and different forms of content - even challenging content! The fact that I play WoW primarily from raiding didn’t stop me from playing a ludicrous amount of the Mage Tower to the point that I got all 36 skins back in Legion. The fact that they didn’t make the Mage Tower permanent when they added it to Timewalking is I think perhaps one of the greatest missteps Blizzard has made in a while.
That might be where the core of my disconnect comes from. I understand the appeal of feeling like you’re progressing but I’ve never really got that feeling from any kind of open world content for as long as I’ve played the game. Killing world mobs in a couple globals doesn’t feel substantially different to me at ilvl 240 as it does at ilvl 190. There’s not much risk of failure there so it feels like chores to me more than anything else. The place where I see myself becoming more powerful is when my raid group kills a boss we’d been struggling on. I can watch week to week as the fights become cleaner and quicker as the whole group improves in both gear and experience. Any individual fight in world content is generally over too quickly and doesn’t have enough moving parts for me to feel like something is going better than it was last week. I think that’s also a problem that could be solved with more opportunities at challenging solo content though. World content just simply isn’t engaging enough regardless of how challenging it is or what rewards it gives to serve as a good source of that daily gameplay grind.
Let me tell you, M+ dungeons and raids are no less repetitive. If all you’re looking for them is the story and world building, that’s still available to a solo player through LFR and Heroic dungeons. It seems to me that you don’t have an issue working with other players towards a common goal so queued instanced content should still be on the table, right? Organized dungeons and raids are just the same content but harder with people that you agree to go with ahead of time. It doesn’t fundamentally change all that much and you’re still doing the same stuff week to week.
Nothing stops you from interacting with players in the ways you say you want to right now and I expect it will happen naturally any way since players will all be in the same areas looking to accomplish the same open world objectives when 9.2 releases.
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