And yet you still decided to take my statement and twist it to fit your view. When that was not at all what I wanted to say about the Cariel situation. That changes in general start small and fairly insignificant before they actually become the norm.
So, 17 years for Blizzard to show a single black female paladin, and not even in WoW; in Hearthstone. How many decades until we get two, or dare I ask?? A whole three!!!
8 Likes
Again nothing to twist, you’re putting your own views out there for all to see
2 Likes
I noticed you ignored the whole kettle calling the pot black. Cat got your tongue?
I don’t think complacency is the solution, at the same time this zealous pursuit for any and all wrong(real or otherwise) probably doesn’t do it any good either. Hence why the twitter outrage on this is probably going to last a whole month or so before it gets forgotten by the next WoW controversy. (if it hasn’t already)
Considering we literally had the racial make up of Stormwind changed to have black characters/asian characters(or did you forget that little detail), I actually don’t think it will be long. Really, it depends on if we go back to Azeroth or continue our little cosmic journey here.
and yet both you and Alynsa decided to add your own commentary which was not at all what I was saying. Especially considering I clarified with my own example of Flynn/Mathias.
My defense here is these stories were done during a time when these racist, mysogynistic/homophobic things were common and that over time Blizzard has done its best to slowly change that. And that we suddenly stop taking inspiration from these old literature we probably would have a worse product now(Lovecraft was as racist as they came but horror fiction would not be the same without his works)
And you are the one telling me mine prespective is wrong.
I am defending them in the same way I can still watch Big Bag Theory or read Lord of the Rings or enjoy works based on Lovecraft even with its numerous problematic view. Sure they have crappy stuff in them but they were enjoyed by people for a reason. That even at their worse they still had something to say/something to make people feel and they did it pretty well.
Actually Blizzard has thus far added three confirmed characters who are gay, they even made Tracer, the box art for overwatch 1 gay, even though there was going to be a backlash to it. Do I think everyone in Blizzard is pro-gay? No of course not, but at the same time I think as an organization and at least for now the corporate overlords tell them, having gay characters is fine.
You have decided you get to decide what the “whole non-white audience” gets to think? I think you may need to look at a mirror for your own biases.
1 Like
No. Not at all. But since I never claimed you were non-white and said you’re clearly oblivious to how this looks from a non-white audience, I figured it best to let it go. Because the nuance of things like “you are not the whole audience” would escape you.
Baal sees it. I see it. Others who have stated they are not white have stated they see it. We are a non-white audience.
I didn’t bother addressing your attempted redirect, because I already see you making some failed claim about the above statements. I’ve already been spoiled on that reveal.
But you know what I noticed? A lot of things you just dropped when you realized how badly they showed your arguments to be.
I guess that omission says a lot about you, huh? And I know, it’s different when you do it. You’ve tried (and failed) to do that one already.
I literally only pointed out that the Alliance has issues with white male rulers. That is hardly a zealous pursuit to a rational audience.
But you clearly feel it is. You keep insisting waiting is the right move. That if we wait long enough (generations by your timetable), Blizzard will adapt better to a diverse audience.
You have literally advocated for complacency.
Again, how long? You’ve literally stated repeatedly that wait and see is the way to go. That generations and internal political legislation (you still haven’t explained that one) are the keys here.
So. How long, Zerde?
Seventeen years to get a single black female paladin in the non-canon card game, a single prominent gay couple, and fewer female characters depicted in skimpy, sexualized outfits.
“Done its best to slowly change that.”
And you know people use Lovecraftian elements without the need to include the racist parts, right?
Why do you expect Blizzard to have to include racist elements when other companies can avoid this, while using the same base material for inspiration?
You have done a lot to justify existing racism here, Zerde.
9 Likes
Do you know the difference between “one prominent gay couple” and “total number of confirmed LGBTQ+ characters across gamelines”?
Not only did I not say that, you clearly know I didn’t say it. You’re only making this argument because you know you’re lost in the fields here. Why else make your reply to my post in an edit to an earlier post of your own, hoping I wouldn’t see it?
5 Likes
Don’t know. Why ask me that at all. However what i can tell you is clearly Blizzard does know about it and the fact they even address my earlier somewhat joking/somewhat serious post about the Race page not having a balanced male/female ration makes me think they are aware of it.
And others have used those same racist elements. Sometimes to tell a “racism is bad” and sometimes unconsciously.
As for Blizzard itself using racist elements, again it was a built in thing and short of full on retcon(which may or may not change things for the better) is probably alot harder to solve.
And I have pointed out those issue have slowly course correctt themselves over the years and more importantly they are still a bigger problem on the Horde side.
The criticism towards the book has reached wowhead. I don’t know if that would trigger another response from the wife or her going further silent on the matter.
12 Likes
And yet you were talking about Blizzard, not just WoW, you wanted proof Blizzard itself is probably ok with LGBT+ and I gave you proof of that.
Because I misclick the thing, not realizing it was a damn edit to an old post as oppose to a new one and was too lazy to go back and change it.
Ah, here we go. A less dishonest attempt to respond. Nice!
Because you’re the one telling me to wait and see, telling me it takes generations, telling me it’s happening.
So, how long?
Again with the “well, it was always racist, so what can you do??”
What even do you think this defense is?
Actually, you literally spent the first post telling me I’m wrong, the problem never existed, and the Horde is worse.
You only mentioned course correction later, when you decided wowkiki is both the most trusted source (when you use it) and a vile source of lies (when others use it), and even then you had to lie to make your numbers seem bigger when discussing the gender disparity (ignoring the racial one entirely, which was half my argument).
No, I definitely was talking about WoW when I was talking about the Alliance, Alliance leaders, Alliance white male rulers, and the Alliance.
Why even bother trying this easily debunked lie?
Seems suss.
2 Likes
I like that they made an article. They didn’t make one about the Trollbane edit.
1 Like
Last I checked, Mrs. Cope had set her profile to private. Unless that’s changed, I’d expect continuing silence.
6 Likes
The only true answer is in the next expansions, which expansion, who knows. Ultimately I don’t expect will take 20-30 years this time if only because again Stormwind was literally change to make this a possible reality.
That was my first post on the thing. Literally me telling you yes it was biased toward male leader but with an attempt at trying to give a spotlight to female characters, unlike the Horde.
If it was the only relationship Blizzard ever added then yes it would be impossible to say Blizzard has no issue with homophobia, but they literally have added them in their various games. Starting with Overwatch and it has now slowly trickled into Warcraft, both WoW and Hearthstone. We actually have bi, lesbians and even a genderfluid character now in their game.
And you then spent the rest of the post trying to tell me how wrong I was for pointing out the White Male Leader problem.
Again, why lie Zerde?
And once more, who cares about those other games when we’ve been talking about Warcraft this whole time?
I’m done. You’ve abandoned all forms of honest discourse at this point and are relying solely on dishonesty. You did manage to change my opinion on one thing, but sadly not any of the things you tried to.
2 Likes
I’m telling you it was a problem slowly course correcting itself to the point the Alliance actually had a diverse enough roster that it is about 60-40/closer to 50-50 gender split depending on what is true lore.
Because you decided to talk about Blizzard as a company. and as a company they have slowly made diversity a goal(even if their internal workings are flawed). And that even Flynn/Matthias are not the only gay characters in WoW. Heck, we even had a gay troll wedding in a book!
Does anyone want to tell him about the recent lawsuit and how they treated their POC workers? The horrible sexual assault allegations? And he thinks the COMPANY is going to just change by itself?
Zerde….I mean come on dude. Learn to take the loss and just admit defeat
3 Likes
You really think I don’t know? At the same time I can distinguish that not everyone(especially the devs still working on the game) had a hand in that mess.
As for change, I think it going to take alot more then us complaining on the internet about it for anything to actually happen. Heck, if the WoW forums had any say at all I think Kotick and alot of others would have been gone a long time ago.
1 Like
I actually stand corrected. There is a second thing you did manage to change my opnion on.
Earlier, you made the very unusual claim that Blizzard changed their representation of LGBTQ+, of races, and of their depictions of women based on legislation. This implies you believe either that Blizzard was legally mandated to make those changes by new United States Laws (which is beyond ridiculous), or you believe Blizzard make their decisions through a convoluted internal heirarchy similar to a parlimentary form of government. When I called the latter out, you never responded, leading to the assumption that yes, you believe this is how the company dictates story direction, representation, and likely system design.
At first, I thought this was asinine.
But then I thought of how SL and BfA played out. Not just the story direction, but also the many overlappng systems. Some systems seemingly without real purpose or forethought or concern for how they interacted with other systems.
In that regard, you have changed my mind. I now can believe that WoW is created fully by a commitee with multiple conflicting political interests, that story developments have to be proposed and voted on (and clearly the filibuster is alive and well), and that it was only by majority vote that Flynn and Shaw got together.
Micah, my sweet doggo friend.
That lawsuit only happened after generations of waiting and seeing by the state of California, stemming back to the gold rush era. Didn’t you know that?
Thank for this wonderful news my sweet elven friend. Perhaps in another 400 generations, we’ll start seeing actual progress. According to Zerde anyway
3 Likes