AOO at 395, Alliance bonus 20% (4-23)

[Irisse-maelstrom]

When one faction outnumbers the other faction “overwhelmingly” - that is, I believe, by 2:1 or more - the the outnumbered faction gets AOO the following week.

What makes you think 2:1?

There are several reasons to think that the differential war mode bonus is proportional to the population difference - that is, that the Alliance get a 20% war mode bonus, twice as much as the Horde, when the Horde have twice as many people in war mode.

First, it balances the war mode Azerite bonus for both factions. We know that Blizzard is concerned about balancing the factional PVE raid performance. People from both factions had been suggesting a differential war mode bonus all through 8.0, but it wasn’t until someone pointed out that a uniform war mode bonus caused a Horde advantage in total Azerite collection that Blizzard actually implemented the system.

Second, this proportionality is accepted on the EU forums. Either they came up with the conclusion independently, or their CMs have been more forthcoming with specific information. Either way, the independent verification adds credibility to the theory.

Third, the quest title. 1.25:1, as you would suggest, would not normally be considered “overwhelming”. In fact, 2:1 is about the lowest odds that could be considered “overwhelming”.

Isn’t it more logical to assume the alliance WM bonus represents the corresponding population deficit? For example, this week the bonus is 15%. If there were 100,000 Horde players in WM last week, that would mean there were 85,000 Alliance players.

That would only make sense if the bonus applied across the board, and not just in war mode. Applying that bonus across the board, including with war mode off, would balance the overall Azerite awarded to the two factions, and thus might be a good way of balancing PVE raiding overall.

However, the differential only applies to the war mode bonus, so a 20% Alliance bonus is a factor of two difference, not a 20% difference.

If you think about it, your suggestion can’t be correct, anyway. If Alliance were getting a 15% bonus for 15% less war mode population, why would the Horde be getting a 10% bonus? You can’t have 15% less Alliance and 10% less Horde at the same time.

[Tanknnspankn-chromaggus]

Do you have any proof that back that up? I believe you’ve been asked several times yet haven’t provided.

[Nomak-spirestone (Nomak)]

Third, the quest title. 1.25:1, as you would suggest, would not normally be considered “overwhelming”. In fact, 2:1 is about the lowest odds that could be considered “overwhelming”.

That’s pretty thin Irisse. Even in some of your previous posts, you shared stats that showed the total faction population at 120 was ~ 20% in favor of the horde, no? How could total population be 1.25;1, but WM is 2:1?

I wish Blizz would share some stats with us. I get that they can’t divulge actual numbers, but something as simple as 2:1 or 1.25:1 odds would be great to know for sure. It would eliminate all of our theory-crafting on the topic.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

That’s pretty thin Irisse. Even in some of your previous posts, you shared stats that showed the total faction population at 120 was ~ 20% in favor of the horde, no? How could total population be 1.25;1, but WM is 2:1?

Back a few months into 8.0, it was quite clear that war mode population was around 10-1 in favor of Horde. That wasn’t because the overall population was anywhere near 10-1 in favor of Horde; it was because war mode was naturally imbalanced.

[Tanknnspankn-chromaggus]

Back a few months into 8.0, it was quite clear that war mode population was around 10-1

Again you have factual proof or more of your opinions? Try providing something to back up your words instead of expecting everyone to just believe your every word.

[Nomak-spirestone (Nomak)]

According to https://realmpop.com/us.html, at level 120, there are 1.8m horde (53.7%) and 1.55m alliance (46.3%).

(1,800,322 - 1,553,011) / 1,553,011 = 15.9%

So roughly 16% more horde than alliance at level 120. Horde having 2:1 odds to trigger AOO seems extremely unlikely. Horde having a 20% population advantage one week seems very plausible though. Someone check my math to keep me honest.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

“seems” is not math; it’s just a personal guess.

[Nomak-spirestone (Nomak)]

Back a few months into 8.0, it was quite clear that war mode population was around 10-1 in favor of Horde.

I really want to have a friendly discussion with you Irisse. You can’t just throw in made up statistics like this if you want people to take you seriously.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

If you had still been doing world quests in war mode at the time rather than deeply into PVE progression, you’d know it wasn’t made up.

[Nomak-spirestone (Nomak)]

I’m trying really hard here Irisse… but you aren’t giving me much to work with. I have done daily WQs since day 1. WM has been on since day 1. All of my WM achieves are from 8.0 with maybe 1 exception. Why must you make up this sort of nonsense? This is why people troll you so much.

[Tanknnspankn-chromaggus]

LOL how would he be able to ascertain the total population of Horde and Alliance if he was in WM? He can traverse every shard across every realm and have instant stats? Seriously, you need to start providing actual factual proof because you’r “opinions” seem to be with heavy irrational bias.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

Seriously, you need to start providing actual factual proof because you’r “opinions” seem to be with heavy irrational bias.

Anyone who actually wants to know what war mode was like for Alliance in the second half of 8.0 can easily ascertain it by going back to the old forum and looking at posts from non-RP war mode Alliance from the period, if they can find any.

Alternatively, they can look at all the Horde posts from that period saying, “CTA is impossible, I spent 2 hours camping X quest/flightpoint and only say 1 Alliance the whole time”.

But hey, keep believing what you want to believe; not many people are interested enough in the truth to put any work into looking up the data.

[Tanknnspankn-chromaggus]

Anyone who actually wants to know what war mode was like for Alliance in the second half of 8.0 can

You know what anecdotal evidence is? That would be your example…at best.

ascertain it by going back to the old forum and looking at posts from non-RP war mode Alliance from the period, if they can find any.

Again that’s not proof. Do you know the definition of proof? Seriously asking

But hey, keep believing what you want to believe; not many people are interested enough in the truth to put any work into looking up the data.

It’s not what I want to believe Irisse, I’m asking for you to provide proof, actual factual proof and before you mention forum post of personal experience, that is NOT considered proof. So far you’ve provided non but we have seen the stats of 120s Horde vs Alliance and not once did it show 2:1

[Nomak-spirestone (Nomak)]

and not once did it show 2:1

Let alone 10:1 odds Irisse is claiming. Foolish us for trying to have a civil discussion that didn’t turn into nonsense and made up statistics.

[Dosao-bonechewer (Dosao)]

Second, this proportionality is accepted on the EU forums.

Trying to prove speculation in one forum by showing speculation in another forum… hope you are not a lawyer in real life . Or maybe you are a real good lawyer who is a spinmeister.

[Acialga-emerald-dream (Acialga)]

Still wish there were no bonuses besides the CTA quest. Less whining about death in warmode by people

[Fuego-eonar]

Nobody but Blizzard knows where the percentages come from and what triggers AOO. I wish they removed CTA and just gave AOO to both sides. I keep saying it hoping that one day it will be implemented. They could bump it up to 35 kills.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

I opposed balancing bonuses for a long time, preferring actual balance in the racials. Eventually it became clear that Horde were going to whine too much if racials were actually balanced, and also that world PVP was going to die out completely if some balancing step wasn’t taken, so I started supporting a dynamic balancing mechanism similar to what Blizzard eventually implemented.

So, yes, I wish we could have balanced war mode without bonuses too, but I wish for a lot of things that can’t happen.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

Both sides get AOO if the triggering situation occurs. It just turns out that the triggering mechanism has only occurred for Alliance, so far.

Go back to giving the Alliance the overpowered racials, or introduce Alliance high elves as a regular race, and Horde will start getting AOO.

[Tanknnspankn-chromaggus]

I opposed balancing bonuses for a long time, preferring actual balance in the racials. Eventually it became clear that Horde were going to whine too much if racials were actually balanced,

Once again making statements without an ounce of truth or facts. Racials wouldn’t balance out the population and most reasonable people know this.