Anyone else feel like Unholy needs more of its damage in its actual spells?

Errr… nope. It wouldn’t.

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The real problem for me (not a serious UH player), is the CDs. I really shouldn’t have to have 3-4 CDs (and a macro to pop 3 at a time) just to start popping off.

The specs are balanced around their entire toolkit, so Blizzard can just eliminate some of the CDs and bake more upfront damage into the spells.

It’s real annoying to play compared to other specs.

I mean, people said unholy is unviable this season and FOTM rerolled to other classes like DH and ret. I get it.

I played on PTR and the damage in M+ is definitely viable. Wow devs want classes to be hyper specialized.

I do wish they would remove button bloat and stop with us having to juggle 6 different CDs constantly. Boost overall damage, take away some of the fluff and call it a good one.

I could live without slappy hands, I did so for 15 years.

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Punching everything in the face at one time is pretty fun. Sounds like an Indiana Jones fight scene.

I get what you mean and for me I would like my regular abilities to hit a lot harder and have the our cooldowns damage reduced

I think the problem is that if I remember right we had decent strikes and our dots did like laughable damage so they buffed them till we were dot spec mostly with strikes which don’t really do much.
I get that finding a balance is hard I’m just glad this blizzard is trying still

Not trying to rating shame but as RSS is so insanely inflated this ssn that it’s a bad argument to use as 1900 isn’t a giant achievement right now. Looking in comparison you’re sub 1200 with a negative win/rate in 3s.

RSS is putting people at their all time high CR by an extensive amount, so using this to argue a state of a class generally only works the other way around (asking for nerfs). Like all these ret paladins who were normally life long rivals breaking 3k this season :joy:

Unholy is pretty meh right now. Was much better in 10.0.5

Oh and before anyone tries to “Nu uh” me about the CR comment, theres a reason why RSS is about to get its MMR nuked come ssn 2. Arena is Deflated

So you take 3 words out of an entire two paragraphs? My dk isnt even full pvp gear, and i used him to screw off in 2s and 3s with friends typically in green crafted pvp or in blues at most just to get a weekly box on alts. Idgaf about swinging ego past unlocking the skins.

The damage is there. MDI showed it. Our survivability is lacking in pvp. Dk was redesigned to be a combination of pet class and some wierd disease bursting archetype. Our damage doesnt come from one source but from diseases, pet, popping wounds, etc. So of course scourge strike is going to feel weak when its used to pop a pustule, it increases dot damage, and generates RP.

Frost on the otherhand, which is supposed to be a strike based build (oblit and fs) feels weak af.

I do think blizz was trying to get too creative with specs and dropped the ball tremendously, but UHdk, much like monk is hyperspecalized into being an AOE monster, which means they need to be lacking somewhere, and ST is it

Yes because idc about pve

This is fundamentally wrong. Frost is the cleave spec, unholy is the ST spec.

Unholy basic abilities are extremely undertuned, all our damage comes from cds and pet cds.

TBH that more reads like the other brackets will be more inflated because nuking SS does not solve the issue spoken of there of 3s and 2s being INCREDIBLY deflated.

Boxing unholy into the “ST” spec isn’t something you can really say when its most known for having insane burst and the best mass aoe in the game. The issue in this thread is about pve, pvp has different tuning already. In pve festering strike composes around 2% of your single target damage which, quite frankly, is pathetic for a main spell.

Unholy isnt about ST. I dont know how it could be when it was taken in the MDI specifically for its aoe and the pulls they were doing. +23 mass pulling with a boss in there and aoeing everything. Everything was melting including the bosses resulting in a 13 minute run.

If it was ST they wouldnt have taken unholy and would have opted for something else entirely.

You don’t even play the game, sit in your corner & be quiet.


Yeah, except that’s not what’s going on.

Read the context of my response. The guy is claiming Frost is the ST spec & Unholy is the cleave spec. The specs were already placed in a “box” by the individual.

BOS being Frosts meta for how many expansions now doesn’t tick the box of frost being the ST spec, especially when Unholy outperforms it on bosses - Then when it relates to PvP Frost is the cleave setup spec…so /shrug.

Not once have I claimed neither spec’s can’t do the other, but when the individual I’m responding to does, I’m going to keep it within the same context. So reply to him, not me. lmao

So you are telling me that the solution to 3s being deflated and causing the issue of no one able to get the glad mount which is NOT % based and is a flat rating (wins above 2400) is not to increase inflation in 3s and solve the issue temporarily (instead of just getting more to play it) but actually to nuke SS and solve nothing?

Regardless, on the topic of the post. The specs really need a hard look by the team in pve. Both rely FAR too much on burst windows which results in the actual pressed skills doing awful damage 80% of the time. Even in PVP pillar being the only damage window is terrible design, it shouldn’t be a 5x multipler on oblit damage and it needs to meet in the middle in cds and out of cds.

Unh is in a much more dire situation next patch in pve with not being the PI target anymore as well as losing puzzle box which accounts for 15% of their OVERALL damage (read taeznak’s posts on this titled Unholy in 10.1 it is a depressing read). Unh will not only FEEL bad but also perform awfully in pve.

I will defer to others on pvp balancing for dk because I do not play it there, my point on pillar is just that the damage swing is WAY out of control and feels bad.

You’re reaching too hard here. I’ve talked about none of that in this thread.

A) The individual I replied to said the spec is fine because he “reached 1900”, which was his all time high for DK that he’s ever achieved - by roughly 400cr.
B) I targeted that because using RSS rating to justify a spec being “fine” right now is a bad argument due to how ridiculously inflated RSS is, backing that up with a link showing even blizzard recognizes it AND his 3s rating. Thus challenging the argument of “spec is fine, I hit X rating in RSS”

Like the Elite set & PvP enchant are completely free right now, that’s how insane the inflation is where literally someone who could never achieve these rewards in the past, can all of a sudden hit them without an issue overnight. We can’t use that individual as a benchmark of a class performance unless we’re taking it from the top of the ladder (like my example of life long Rival Ret paladins breaking 3kcr this season)

AND pvp. Currently the Tier set doesn’t even work for Unholy bc it only impacts Army & not Abom. So not only we have to spec into a dead talent for PvP but then (if they fix this) autolock ourselves into a pvp talent just to gain the tier set lmao

Not reaching just trying to understand, I do agree 1800 is pretty meaningless, even If its something that was relatively accessible before as well (which is good as a motivator for new pvp players). Thank you for explaining it all in one block what you were trying to say here.

I totally agree about PVP needing a look as well. These 2 specs deserve the level of love that ret got in the rework and I think honestly have a lot of the same issues. Crusader strike and generators on ret felt AWFUL before the rework and a big issue they had was stacking modifiers (now they are just passive and overtuned in pvp, blessing of dawn has got to go).

I would really love seeing a world where frost strike and death coil dont do peanut damage and that scourge strike and oblit are threatening abilities out of cds.

To put it in perspective, 1800 wasn’t even the median during SL S2, which was one of the most inflated 3s season, ever, until the end of the season. Rated Solo Shuffle broke that median this season back in December.

While I’m happy rewards are more accessible, I think they need to look at either raising the rating requirement in RSS for these rewards or (and the option I’d prefer) add MORE rewards into PvP at the lower ratings while boosting up the Elite set and Enchant requirement. Elite sets don’t feel elite when all you need to do is press Q and you attain it, essentially, lol.

I’m really concerned about the direction DK is going in (more so unholy) for pvp in 10.1. We already auto lock Necrotic Wounds, but having to auto lock Abom to gain the tier set as well really hampers the flexibility, especially when they’re looking at adding new PvP talents.

It would be amazing if they made Army of the Dead a choice node between that & Abom.

Maybe my perspective is a bit warped on that. I generally thought it was pretty achievable. I do think the set is a great motivator though as a side note. The set at 2k in legion is what spurred me to really get into pvp and “git gud” enough to get it. (obviously not good compared to 2400 + players but you get it).

I don’t think they should worry about ease of getting that set I’d rather just see better rewards higher than that and keep elite set at 1800. Tmog is the main motivator for most people and other rewards will not motivate them. I know it wouldn’t motivate me or anyone else I know.

And yea on unh, I really think they need a massive shake up. When I think unh from a design stand point I think unhealable pressure through rotting and disease while pushing 1 target down harder with big strikes. It doesn’t really meet the big strikes category even if the pressure has been there a couple times over the last few years.

(Personally on the topic of sets I wouldn’t even care if people could get past elite sets I have, I think it working like the vicious saddle token would be interesting with getting 1 set a season so you can either get current or a past one but never truly get them all. But this way you could get specific ones you want even if the token required 2100 for past sets or something)

It is for those who generally participate frequently in PvP. The Median takes into account all players over x amount of games played (forgot what x was for those stats)

Yeah I’ve liked this idea and thought this way before too. Still would keep the “exclusivity” on the sets as essentially you’d be giving up 1 season for another which I think is a fair compromise…That and I really want to get the Elite Primal Gladiator set. Boy do I wish I was a PvPer back then.