I’m sure the bar is 1800 not 1600
If frost mage is considered fotm, this is news to me. I decided to main frost mage at the start of the expansion for pve/raids, but after weeks of getting declined from m+, 2s/3s, raids etc. based on my spec alone, I stopped playing the toon altogether and then started leveling other toons. After the last few times frost has been buffed, came back to it to see how it felt after the buffs. I never went fire at any point.
In any case, just because I have a gladiator achievement doesn’t automatically make me a gladiator skill-wise on every spec/class (e.g., i got gladiator as a healer, and my best xp as a dps class is 2100-2200 across a handful of dps classes, nowhere near glad).
WoD gearing is the best way to go, and yes, the current system is subpar in terms of fostering a fair and friendly competitive environment for all players (as others have said, new players will struggle, but should brand new players automatically be rivals in their 1st season playing (roughly the top 10% of active players)?)
My main point is just that at least for the bars of 1400/1600, there is just no real excuse, as there are so many mistakes made by each team, that there is plenty of room to outplay most teams, regardless of gear disparity. Even if you lose a few games here and there due to gear/one shot gimmicks, you should still be winning at least half your games or slightly more if you are playing any remotely decent comp and have approximately 200-207 ilvl. It might take more games than it would have if there was no boosting, but if you belong there skill-wise, you should get there all the same.
Aside from my point, I do ultimately prefer when there are no significant gear advantages in instanced pvp, since while hitting rating milestones does give more satisfaction when there is a gear advantage to be had, it ultimately makes skill less meaningful in every game that has major gear disparities between teams.
Still, if you can’t hit 1600 in at least one of the brackets, you’re either putting little-no effort into it, or you are just not good enough to hit it yet (one or more of these probably apply: you don’t have a solid understanding of how/when to use/trade cds/coordinate cc, don’t understand what comps work for your class/spec, don’t use voice, don’t use helpful addons, have an abysmal ui setup/keybindings, etc., don’t understand talent optimization against x comp/y spec, etc.).
In the end, YOU are the only one keeping yourself from reaching your goals/desired rating, and until you stop blaming your shortcomings on “bad game design”, “my spec isn’t meta”, “my gear is bad”, etc., and put in the effort to actually improve your gameplay, you will just be wasting time and forum space complaining about the same bs that has been complained about since vanilla.
Rank 1s are rank 1 because they are the best at being self-critical of their own gameplay in combination with understanding how to improve upon/learn from mistakes and a willingness/drive to strive for mastering their class(es)/spec(s).
This is just another excuse. There are plenty of people that have the wife/gf, pets/kids, full time job doing 40 hrs/week, etc. that get glad every season.
When you say “trying to get better”, this may be an issue for many. Are they really trying to learn/improve properly, or are they just queing a lot of games? For example, if you are a clicker (a lot of us at some point were) and are unwilling to keybind all of your abilities, then you are NOT putting in a reasonable effort to try to improve. Have you tried using gladius/Sarena, no?, then the same. Have you even bothered to check out the top players for your spec/class to get a feel for what/why certain talents are good for some comps/not good for others? The list goes on and on.
Take any example you’d like, but If I play chess and I never bother to take a lesson, read a book, learn from better players, etc., then it doesn’t matter if I play for years and years, I am not going to ever reach a competitive level. Will I improve a little bit from self-learning and experience, yes, but I will definitely not be in the top 10% of players as I didn’t make a real/proper effort to “try to get better”.
This. Just a bunch of instant gratification whiners.
Really funny watching the reeeeeeee from people who thought they were good in expansions with very little damage so layered mistakes couldn’t be punished.
Anyone can climb Mt. Everest too
Newsflash if your character has 30k HP and your enemy has 40k HP he is doing double your damage. That’s not a fun time. This self-gratification from making threads on forums saying “its possible” does very little to ease the minds of those who are at a very steep disadvantage in terms of gear.
I’ve reached 1600 multiple times this expac on multiple different chars. I almost never lost against players with same HP as me. Only games I ever lost were against players with 40k+ HP while my alt was sitting at 30k. Based on those experiences, it’s easy to assume that gear-gap is a huge issue. Those who disagree most likely played with others who were much more skilled than the MMR they reside at, and/or were 215+ ilvl to carry with damage.
I welcome anyone that disagrees to climb to 1600 on a 190-200 ilvl character, while queing with a teammate who is also 190-200 ilvl. Both of you need to start at 1200 mmr (not allowed to skip the rat league straight to 1500), this way when you win you get +10 and when you lose you lose -19 cr.
I’m grateful for skipping the rat league (1200-1400mmr) on a couple of my alts, legit started at 1500mmr even at 0 cr. Gained +50-90cr per win all the way to 1400 then easy +20-30 every win to 1600.
Some of my alts…were not so lucky…unforch.
Been there done that. I was like 202 and my warrior was 196 sham was the same. Everyone we played after 1550 was 220+.No voice btw. Hit 1600, tanked down went to rbgs because I like them and have been waiting since MOP for them to be popular.
I also hit 2k in 2s in in 288 games in bfa s4 after 4 years of no rated pvp. I played to 1970 with a healer who had 161k HP. All those games were no voice.
Can’t get away with no voice yet in arenas and bgs though. Too many people with zero awareness from 2 expansions of dampening meta design.
Any other conditions you want to impose are irrelevant distraction tactics, for example anyone who is 1600 or higher would have had to play at 1200.
These threads whining about gear are a massive deflection for people who don’t want to accept responsibility for their play.
Do you read the words I type or nah? I won’t repeat what I said I’ll just quote for ya.
The war and sham were 100 and 175 cr lower than me. So it was actually harder because I was getting 8-9 cr for a win and minus 10-15 for a loss.Like I said not going to engage with your pointless semantics.
One day you’ll read my post and understand that all I was trying to say is that facing players with 10k more HP than you is not fun. Annoying
Somehow you and the OP read the words “not fun” and “annoying” as impossible. Again, did you read my post? Yes or no?
I’ll repeat it one last time in case some people have cognitive disabilites. Playing against players with 10k more HP than you is not enjoyable. It is indeed VERY POSSIBLE to climb to high ratings in bad gear. But it is NOT FUN
Shifting the goal post makes your weak points even weaker. I read great btw, literally one post from me countered every non emotion based point you tried to make.
Yea bro them goal posts…quoting my original post…
Somehow you passed 2nd grade English though I’m impressed.
LMAO
10 char
While I can appreciate this attempt to argue the issue, let’s not pretend that reaching 1600 in WoW arena is comparable to climbing Mt. Everest in any relevant way.
Of course alts are going to have a struggle, and while I agree that honor/conquest should have a catch-up mechanic implemented, the majority of players 1600 and below do not have 40k health. The “geared” ones I most encountered were 34-37k health with the majority being toward the lower end, and then there was still a solid % of games where players had 30-33k health.
The honor gained would be doubled if I had a say, but you shouldn’t expect an effortless 1600 if you aren’t 200+ ilvl (since this is what players will have if they grinded the unranked gear, upgraded a few pieces to 207, etc.). Once you’ve upgraded all of your gear for your current bracket, you have an ilvl that is sufficient to reach the next rating milestone, then once you’ve upgraded all of your gear again, the same applies (and so on for each bracket).
Other than Legion, the game has never been designed so that a fresh toon can compete with a geared toon. Even in WoD, you had to play at a decent gear disadvantage while grinding games to catch-up on conquest, so until you max out your gear for your current bracket (200+ for unranked, 207+ for 1400, 213+ for 1600, etc.), you shouldn’t be complaining at all.
Take any semi-coordinated multi-glad/r1 team (playing a relevant comp), or hell, even multi-duelist team, and I’d wager that an overwhelming majority of them can reach 1600 with only 190-200 ilvl with minimal difficulty.
All of the whine posts ultimately come down to one simple truth. People (as a whole) generally have an inflated opinion of themselves, and they don’t want to cope with the fact that their shortcomings have anything to do with their own abilities/competence, so to rationalize their shortcomings, they try to make a case for why life/the game is unfair, and how they are being held back by “gear”, “spec”, “boosters”, “meta”, “lfg”, “bad partners” etc. (e.g., held back by anything and everything except for themselves).
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Even the worst spec in the game right now, outlaw, has 2.4
Incomparable how? Preparing for a Mt. Everest climb takes months but surely its possible for anyone who sets their mind to it.
Same goes for any human being who’s never played WoW before. Will take them months of understanding how the game works before they can actually push rating.
Strange, are we queing different brackets? 70% of the games have players with 40k+ HP and its 1200-1600 mmr (actually more HP from players at 1300mmr than 1500+ its fascinating.)
Also what is your post even trying to prove? That it’s possible to climb higher ratings in bad gear (which I’ve already said)?
Guess I gotta say it again. Playing against players with 10k+ more HP than you is not fun.
Very possible yet not enjoyable.
I need to use bold print for some people it’s nice.
I’ll get there at my current win:loss of 1:9 someday…
Notice how people dodge the personal responsibility with bad semantics?
I don’t remember all of the names, but I feel confident that this is a common logical fallacy.
Sure let’s equate reaching 1600 in wow, something that has been done hundreds of thousands of times or even millions of times over the course of a decade to a feat that has been done by 6-7 thousand people over the course of centuries.
This is likely confirmation bias, you just don’t opt to recall all the games you stomp the enemy team, yet for every loss, you go straight to the armory/hp levels to rationalize your loss. You should correct this to read “70% of the games I lose have players with 40k+hp”.
There is no point in getting upset. I agree with your statement that its possible, yet not enjoyable, but this post wasn’t directed at the people who are complaining about the “not fun” aspect of acquiring arena rating, it is directed at all of the people complaining that they straight-up can’t reach the rating (or that it is impossible due to the gear disparities caused by the rating thresholds).
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Well then, why can’t they scale down to 197 in unrated PvP?
Scaling up is generally better, because at least in theory, they balance the game around players in max level gear (I believe).
Bringing back the gearing system per WoD would be incredible, and would alleviate the overly-painful grind for gearing alts. Reducing the current required honor to upgrade pieces by 50% or more would greatly reduce the complaints people have about losing games on their undergeared alts [e.g., I doubt anyone thinks the current honor requirement is reasonable]. Other good ideas I’ve seen proposed include making marks account-wide and gear purchasable/upgradable with marks, account-wide honor in general, etc.
There shouldn’t be a gear difference in pvp is a joke 233 weps fighting 213 and 220 is toxic and broken