I wanted to know feral vs boomie and enh vs ele though
This isn’t what I asked for though?
Where is this data? Where is the data that the massive majority of Hunters are pissed that Survival is now melee?
You can show this data based off of “actual stats” right? Where is it, or is it just “anecdotal crap”?
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Fake news.
Exactly why the previous part is fake news. Trueshot Lodge is full of ideologues.
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I spent some time looking through Forum Posts that mention Ranged Survival, to get a feel for the majority attitude, the mind-set.
Mostly, people would like to see Ranged Survival return as a Fourth Spec in the Hunter Class, that a Spec should have been added to the Class, rather than one being removed.
Mostly, the Posts aren’t toxic, if anything they are sad.
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I’m not gonna crunch the numbers for you to get accurate percentages. I started to, but raider.io won’t show me the number of fury and prot warriors, so I can’t get an accurate percentage now. However, the fact that BM has more than TWICE the representation in Sepulcher despite being dead LAST in dps compared to a class that comes in 9th overall (and 5th for max dps) PLUS being 30k+ unique parces behind both MM and BM despite being a solid dps choice should tell you all you need to know. I can’t make you read between the lines. I can’t make you see something you refuse to see. The data is there that the vast majority of hunter players are not happy that it has a melee spec!
The data is there. You refuse to accept/believe it.
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What if they bring back ranged SV, but it’s nothing like what it once was? What if blizzard does the “legion” effect they did on classes And completely change it? I’m curious to know if ranged sv players would still be happy, or if they would continue to want to old model back? Mop version I mean? (Genuinely curious).
I guess what I really wonder is, are the old school RSV players really mad that it is Melee, or are they mad that it’s just not ranged. What if they kept the current tool kit but made everything ranged or melee viable. Would you still hate it?
P.s. Sorry for spelling errors, I’m on my phone.
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For me, I’m personally pissed that they removed the bow/gun ranged dot spec (serpent sting +black arrow) with a reaction mechanic (explosive shot) and better traps. If they brought Survival back and it wasn’t what it was in MoP and before, I probably still wouldn’t play it.
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Yeah I can certainly understand that. I have always enjoyed the Melee versions of the new survival, but I definitely loved the mop version of range survival as well. Mostly from a PVP standpoint as I didn’t really PVE that much. I would definitely not be opposed to them bringing it back either way.
If they want to bring back my beloved spec as a 4th choice, I would be happy with it. It’s that my favorite spec was deleted is what has me unhappy even now. If they had made survival a ranged spec with a different mechanic/system, I’d still be unhappy. Has nothing to do with being melee. Has everything to do with my favorite spec is now deleted.
I’ll argue forever for ranged survival, just most of the argument is melee vs ranged. There is some evidence that a melee hunter is less desirable than ranged but I know that there are some that want it and they should have it. There is plenty of evidence that says the majority want hunter to be ranged which I posted above.
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I (personal opinion obviously) feel that this is soo much the case because the game didn’t originally start this way. Some people love it, some hate it, some refuse it because it’s new and like you said, a spec was replaced with it.
If this spec is still around in ten years, maybe it’ll have a larger following. Only time will tell, but I for one would be on board with a 4th spec added. It would be a welcomed change since I don’t love how MM plays, although I don’t hate it either. And BM to me has felt boring for a long time. I honestly preferred the TBC version of BM over current (subjective I know).
Something about barbed shot I dislike, and cobra shot spamming doesn’t feel fun to me. I’d rather have a casted steady shot (that does GOOD damage) and something needs to change with BM’s AoE. Beast cleave is a neat idea, but I feel like they should buff Beast Cleave and put a cool down on multi-shot, but make it chunk. so maybe 8 second CD on multi shot, and beast cleave duration lasts for 6-7 seconds.
Or hell, give all three hunter specs the ability to spread serpent sting with their AoE abilities. That may go along way with helping MM, SV, and BM’s AoE. (yes I am aware that SV is doing just fine in that department right meow.)
Honestly, the part that annoys me about the current hunter design is that all specs are very similar in the role they can play. All 3 specs have a sustained single target profile and some stacked cleaved with a varying level of burst.
The hope would be that we can get different profiles between specs like other pure DPS have. Why are Warlocks always good? Because they can easily pick the spec to fit the raid design. If a raid isn’t full of fights with a single boss and stacked adds we’re going to struggle because that’s all we can do.
Make BM the spec that is good at stacked AoE, make MM a very bursty single target spec, make Survival good at spread cleave through DoTs. Different toolkits for different situations.
Being melee is a huge strike against Survival that severely limits its viability, and the class viability as a result. Currently, it is good in spite of that simply because they went overboard with the set bonus. There is no reason to expect it won’t go back to low population levels once it is gone.
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Although I understand where you are coming from, like Outlaw rogue this is simply a tuning issue (same with BM) Take away set bonuses, and then buff the abilities needed to improve ST. Blizzard is just failing at their job in this department.
The other issues is why is being melee always seen as a detriment? Blizzard makes ranged and melee mechanics. Sure the windows are smaller for melee, there is less spread, but you can always use abilities while moving unlike most ranged. Obviously most people would probably prefer to be further from the boss and be ranged as it gives more reaction time.
BUT, with melee and ranged mechanics I’ve never quite understood why being melee is always seen as a downside?
TBC was obviously a different game, but my old guild made SSC work with WAY more melee than was recommended. Same with Kara, Gruuls and Mags. It wasn’t the Ideal raid comp, but it worked fine with competent people.
I understand where you are coming from with this, but then like warlocks, people’s favorite specs would not be played most of the time. And that’s already a problem it would seem for all classes.
It has nothing to do with mechanics. If anything, Blizzard has been better at designing them so they aren’t as detrimental to melee lately. But there’s always going to be a limit to how many you can bring. And the competition for melee spots is much larger than it is for range.
This should not be looked as how many melee specs there are vs how many ranged specs there are, but rather how many classes have melee specs vs how many classes have ranged specs. This comparison is much more uneven (going from 13:11 to 9:6, including 3 classes that have both so 6 classes only have a melee option). And when you add mandatory buffs to the portrait, that’s even fewer melee dps spots available for the likes of paladins, dks, druids and hunters.
I’m aware my point of view is very biaised towards the hardcore raider that plays a class over a spec and might not resonate to the more casual player that wants to play a spec and only a spec. I’ve personally enjoyed being able to play all 3 this tier and a good part of the reason why I’d rather have a ranged Survival back is that it would make it likelier to happen again.
At the same time, BM being atrocious right now hasn’t stopped it from still being the most played hunter spec. The Hunter class truly is a special case in that regard.
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All good points you brought up, but I wonder why this is?
Is it because there are no cast times?
is it because it’s 100% mobile?
This is not a shot at BM, I just wonder if it would still be the most popular hunter spec if cast times were added in some way, if it were no longer as mobile. I’m not hating against BM, I’m just genuinely curious if that’s the reason soo many people love the spec.
I know I hate the way BM plays right now, but being 100% mobile is fairly nice no matter the content. PvP, Torghast, LFR. Makes my life 100% better instead of being halfway through Aimed shot and having to move for some blob that’s about to drop on me. Or losing my AoE trickshot window due to moving from mechanics. I know I get soo mad when that happens, but then again, I’m also bad lol
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Where?
Where is this data? I’m not seeing it because you aren’t presenting it.
I think you just made an angry, emotional statement and can’t back it up tbh.
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I’m sure these things help, but another reason I can see is that it is an amazing spec for solo play thanks to the pet tanking for you which is extremely attractive for a casual player. So people get used to it and don’t really care to learn something else. And this even applies to Survival to a lesser degree.
Truth to be told, a lot of people don’t even play BM properly. They’ll stop hitting abilities when they have to move. They’ll let Frenzy drop. The spec gets a lot of bad press for its mobility, but people completely ignore it has one of the flattest dps profiles in the game to balance the fact. If you stop playing for a portion of a fight, it’s going to have a much bigger impact on your overall number than one of the numerous cooldown reliant specs if they stop outside of their cooldown window. They also see a high percent of the damage coming from the pet, even if a good portion would not exist if the hunter was not pressing buttons.
But the spec does have a higher floor than most.
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Again… none of the data available can really explain this. Compounded by the fact that it isnt even a melee spec.
It can just as easily be concluded that SV is unpopular because it is too ranged. Or because the entire hunter class lacks the rotational UI elements (for the most part) that make most melee classes flow more intuitively. It could just be that people have picked a side, like masking or vaccines, and nothing logical can easily make them switch.
There is nothing available that can explain why melee dps, the most popular role in the entire game, is the most unpopular spec in the hunter class.
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What I dislike the most is they had a real chance to make hunter melee into a great system for Beastmaster spec rather than survival, the ranged survival was perfectly find in WOTLK.
Rexxar was a tough as nails melee hunter, what they SHOULD have done from the beginning is made the Beastmaster Hunter one of the new tank specs. Dual Wielding tanks were introduced in WOTLK, and Beastmaster hunters with their healing glyphs could already take over as tanks during WOTLK when crap tanks dropped out of pugs for example.
BM hunters could have become dual wielding melee tanks with tenacity pets which could have expanded another tank option for players to jump into dungeons. It would have improved pugs all around.
Survival should still be allowed to make a decision between melee and ranged, and the different types of shots should be restored to the class (poison, flame, and explosive) like they were in WOTLK. This would have been WAY better than what they did with Survival.
BM hunters should also have Spiritlink because it was in our class spec first.
We also need to have kill command revamped to actually being an execute and we need a new skill called Sic’em to replace the current kill command purpose instead of kill shot.
Survival from WOTLK was far superior than it is now.
With the future new skill/passive trees with the class and roles that you put points into. I imagine both sides should be happy eventually. We should be able to build any type of hunter we want and id imagine being able to use ranged or melee. Maybe melee is a skill unlock? Not sure until we know more but this is looking promising.
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Actually back in AD&D 1st Ed, rangers had magic, Druid magic. Rangers were like the paladins of nature. Cross class between Fighter and Druid. Even in 5E they are this. And Ranger never meant ranged. It meant to Range, or travel.
It was mainly eastern games that took archers and called them rangers and for some ungodly reason everyone born after 1995 think rangers mean ranger.
So rangers that used melee, Aragorn, Drizzt, Minsc, Ren O’ the Blade. Recently Drizzt has gone to an archer/melee fighting style but his strength is melee.
Personally I see rangers now as a hybrid of ranged and melee. GW2 can set up this style nicely. Also NWOnline has a pretty sweet ranger as well (game in and of itself really sucks for a game set in FR though) I have my ESO warden set up Bow/two hander build. It’s an awesome play style. In FFXIV I love redmage for this set up.
WoW should bring in weapon swapping or give us back the ability to equip a bow and melee weapons again.
Also, bard would be a fantastic class to add, it could be a mail wearing class that can spec in ranged Dps, healing support, and melee dps. In 5E I play the valour bard with the dueling weapon style. Usually open with ranged magic attack and then misty step behind stuff with the stabby stab. Melee casters are fun. Just started a 5E Tasha’s Bladesinger 
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