DW frost is better than 2h but a good amount; even more so now that is can essentially have 3 rune forges (Fallen Crusader, Razor Ice, and Stoneskin).
What if might of the frozen champion also increased Howling blast/Frost Strike damage by a %, along with its obliterate damage? It would make 2h frost feel like it can do damage outside of KM procs, and bring it more in line with damage that DW can push out.
I 100% support frost 2h being better, but wouldn’t be better to post this on the DK forum?
Totally did not realize I was in the wrong forum. >_<
The main problem is that the core of the issue is not damage. They’ve been trying to tweak the damage numbers since cataclysm and have never solved the issue. So much of our kit relies upon auto attack procs and so dual wield will always inherently outpace two hand because of that, and it is a class design they have doubled down on multiple times.
If you want to truly solve the balance between the two weapon types, you need to address two handed auto attack speed.
No. DW having access to 3 runeforges is the fault of 2h advocates trying to get what DW has through other means. Even if DW didnt have access to Stoneskin it would just be replaced with an enchant because you dont need RI to be on your weapon thanks to people trying to reduce the effectiveness of RI on DW weapons through having things like Avalanche and GA apply RI.
Once the RI debuff is stacked to 5 the runeforge is 100% worthless due to being able to keep the application up through KM and Rime procs.
If to solve this disparity 2h has to become like DW, have the same attack speed and have the same runeforges through passives, then just get rid of 2h and make it a transmog option. Its literally the same thing, we can go back to forcing 1h weapons making gaining the proper weapon sets infinitely better and Blizzard doesnt have to muck around constantly asking “if we do this how will it affect each weapon set”. Just make 2h a transmog option so the spec can move on already.
And it only took a decade for this to happen! lol.
You mean like a maybe half an expansion? Because DW was better than 2h by a good amount from Wrath to Cata and better than 2h in SL as well. Couldnt even use a 2h in Legion and BFA.
So 2h had its time in the sun being propped up by basically infinite KM procs and a legendary… good job.
True.
Feedback was given on the beta about how km works ect. But as mentioned, they doubled down on it.
Though if the 30% damage from Motfw was given to fs and HB as well (maybe not quite 30%), I feel like the damage difference for sure would be closer. But I did not do any sims. Was just giving an idea on something that would be an easier fix rather than redesigning the spec.
But I’d be all for it to be redesigned. I play dw pve becauae it is better, but would prefer the 2h if given an option of equal dps.
I’ve consistently said it would be easier for all to just move all the Auto-Attack Critical over to Frost Fever ticks as that would normalize the procs between DW and 2H.
i support 2h becoming a transmog option.
So frost doesn’t have split loot anymore.
This is perfect, why haven’t they done this already?
Because it’s a nerf to the spec, through number output and fun.
Because you’d have to take into account only the first target being ticked and I’d assume it doesn’t feel good to get KMs that way in terms of responsive gameplay. Getting KM from headache ticks is the lamest thing ever.
Bring back Crystalline Sword when a 2H is equipped and have it auto attack for you - any time it crits, get KM. Normalise the speed, give it Razorice and boom, done.
so for pvp what do i use now 2h weapon or is it back to dw 1 h swords now ? just want to know before i spend honor
Or just make dw tmog option and have everything balanced around 2h mechanics. Then only one weapon needed for all 3 specs.
You could increase proc rates and resource generation to match the pace of dw if it was only 2h then pretty much everyone would be happy. Only the forum monster would be crying about it.
Or, you know, have the DW spec be the DW spec.
Also why try to make 2h like DW to remove DW when we already have DW? It’s just because you don’t want to get 3 weapons. Warrior needs 3 weapons and a shield, pally needs 2 weapons and a shield. dK is already one of the easiest to get in terms of weapons for plate wearers, quit being lazy and complaining about getting 1h weapons which the inclusion of 2h weapons on Frosts loot pool has made getting 1h weapons infinitely WORSE.
2h has just made everything about this spec worse. Get rid of it, make 2h a transmog and everyone can move on.
It depends on your builds. Currently frost has a few different builds it is running, sustained dw with rider, or 2h deathbringer go build.
No, dw has been the go for frost since it’s inception.
The mechanics that frost has give an advantage to dw.
The only thing they need to do is make one handed weapons drop in pairs.
Not everything needs to be 2h. Frost is the dw spec.
2 primary issues holding back 2H lie in the 2nd rune/enchant that dual wield gets, and the combo of Icy Death Torrent, Long Winter, and Arctic Assault. 2H has always relied on obliteration due to how the function of Might of the Frozen Waste. However, the Arctic Assault kinda recloses the gap a bit between the 2, atleast more so in AoE situations. This one seems fine as this would mean Dual Wield would probably be better in large add situations while 2H would thrive in 2-3 target cleave using Cleaving Strikes talent most likely. Not to mention it fixed the major issue of 2H having a rough time stacking/maintaining Razorice.
The more potent issue is the function of Icy Death Torrent and The Long Winter, expecially the long winter. This honestly seems like a easy fix by bringing these 2 talents to share a simular buff under the Might of the Frozen Waste passive. For Icy Death Torrent, increase the proc chance on 2h crits compared to DW crits by _____% to compensate for the lower amount of crits. Alternatively, increase the damage of the procs themselves simular to Obliterate. For The Long Winter talent, make it so that 2h gets 4 seconds instead of 2 (while still maintaining a 6 second cap). This would allow more padding for 2h to get its crits off since it is slower speed.
As for the enchant, at this point Stoneskin Gargoyle seems to be the go to for non-Shattering Blade builds and Razorice for ones focused on it. DW is and should probably be better in this situation as it reflects fury/arms in a way where with the Stoneskin, the DW has more health, and the 2H has less simular to fury/arms which seems kinda neet to me.
Or they can just get rid of the problem. Increasing the chance for IDT to happen on an auto crit will do nothing.
If you have a 200% chance to gain 1 dollar and all that is available is 1 dollar, it’s equivalent to a 100% chance. It’s more like a true or false thing and not a % chance for it to happen on an auto crit. If it crits you get a proc (true) if not then no proc (false).
2h essentially has 3 runeforges. FC, RI and MotFW. Had them for quite a while as well.