Another Vote Kick Rant

[Thèón-emerald-dream (Thèón)]

@Elae-nagrand

Dude the whole point of the satchel is to give you incentive to go with noobies that don’t know what they doing in content.

I don’t exactly think the satchel is an incentive to play with bads.

[Elanthos-saurfang]

@Metrohaha-firetree

Yes they are. I soloed heroics on the beta when the ilvl scaling was in place. They are trivially easy content and groups of 2-3 people can easily complete them as long as some one can tank OR heal, even if its not effectively.

Complete and utter rubbish. Full groups with a proper tank still wipe in heroic dungeons, from time to time, at the beginning of any xpac.

Recently, I’ve had the displeasure of being in leveling dungeons with a melee dps pretending to be a tank, and it was complete chaos from start to finish. There’s mobs everywhere, everyone’s taking damage, the healer’s stressed, there’s wipes, it all takes MUCH longer than necessary, and everyone ends up with a big, fat repair bill. Always assuming that the group doesn’t just fall apart.

It’s happened three times recently. It is one of the most unfun things I’ve ever experienced in the game.

Frankly, I think it’s players who think they’re good, but aren’t really as good as they think, that try this stuff. It drives me up the wall.

I would’ve expected better than this from an MVP.

[Fangfire-earthen-ring]

Nope, in FFXIV it’s been apart of the game since ARR(when I first started playing FFXIV and WoW). Vote kick abuse is a serious thing in FFXIV and you can always report it. I’ve had GMs contact me to follow up aswell. Its been a pleasent experience overall.

[Meriweather-aggramar]

@Leafblight-dark-iron

Everytime we got Occulus or Halls of Reflection, tanks would sit at the entrance and REFUSE to do anything until you kicked them.

See, you’re exactly right. I never experienced this, so I didn’t understand what you were talking about. Thank you for explaining.

Maybe you’re in a lucky server group then because my queues, though not excessively long, are minutes long rather than seconds long…for pretty much all content at all levels. For LFR and warfronts and time walking and pretty much everything else, my queues are always as long as it takes to find a tank.

[Meriweather-aggramar]

@Elanthos-saurfang

I would’ve expected better than this from an MVP.

Ditto. I mean, this has not been my experience at all that you can solo heroics or that you can do them without a tank. It has been my experience that people THINK they can do that and then get upset with me for not being able to keep up a mage tank who’s taking boss cleaves to the face, and I’ve been in many, many dungeons where we can successfully clear a bunch of trash without a tank. I have not, however, been in a scenario where one can solo current content or do the boss fights without a tank.

That’s patently absurd for all but the few who spend time trying to figure it out specifically so they can say “I soloed x.” That’s fine, but it doesn’t apply to regular runs and regular players in regular gear in current level instances.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

To be fair this sorta depends on the healer. I soloed that mushroom boss in Underrot on my priest from 60% on in a +plus 4 when everyone was dumb and ignored the mushrooms. 15 stacks isn’t healable but i could dispel myself. Smite+holy fire+dispel when he does his special for about 2 minutes.

@Meriweather-aggramar

Maybe you’re in a lucky server group then because my queues, though not excessively long, are minutes long rather than seconds long…for pretty much all content at all levels. For LFR and warfronts and time walking and pretty much everything else, my queues are always as long as it takes to find a tank.

Also i’m horde, we have about 25% more active people at 120, and i’m in a fairly populous server group.

[Mifuné-emerald-dream]

The vote-kick system needs a change. I don’t advocate removing it altogether because the current system doesn’t work, let us remember it is there for a reason.

I feel like parties of 3 people should require a non-party vote to remove a member. This wouldn’t obviously work with parties of 4, but it would stop a lot of griefing that parties of 3 people can inflict on random pugs.

[Legiondary-blackwater-raiders]

@Metrohaha-firetree

Honestly, a dps instead of a tank is just fine in these difficulties. I’d say you should have either a healer OR a tank. You don’t need both.
Having 5 dps might actually be best though, because things just die so much quicker no one really needs healing.

Dungeons are supposed to be tuned to have a dedicated Tank, Healer, and 3 DPS rolls. This is Blizzard’s official balance format/structure. If you can go through the dungeon without a tank and/or healer, it means your group is overgeared for the content, or else Blizzard did not tune the dungeon properly.

If you are in a group of overgeared players, then sure, healer and/or dps can swap to dps and everybody get things done faster. More power to you, but that does not mean this should be the official strategy imposed on players. This does not mean the average player/group in LFD should be expected run without a tank and/or healer, and it’s a little off-putting that an MVP would (mis)represent Blizzard and the game in this way.

[Panoptes-blackhand (Panoptes)]

@Metrohaha-firetree

So by default, it lowers the likelihood that it COULD even happen automatically.

You have some odd definition for ‘automatic’: both cases require manually starting the VtK process or removing you from the group, there is no automation here. In fact:

@Metrohaha-firetree

If Rick is the group leader, and I want to kick Bob over there, I can’t do it.

… but the group lead can kick Bob and Rick for any reason while on VtK you need 3 votes to do so.

I think, this is the issue:

@Metrohaha-firetree

Queued content is the problem, and whether vote kick exists or not, is irrelevant to me.

You are trying to remove VtK because you just don’t use it and not see the value on having it as a way to keep some control over the group in a dungeon. I believe this is the reason why you think that removing it would resolve a ‘social’ problem when there is none: if players wanted to participate in a social instance where communication might be required, they can queue for LFG with the implicit restriction that the group leader has the power to remove any player at any moment.

But what if the player is not interested on being ‘social’ or communication is unlikely to be required? They use LFD/LFR for that with the caveat that they could be kicked using VtK but only if the majority of the group agrees to kick the player.

Yes, it sucks that 3 friends, guildies or whatever can conspire to kick a single player without reason but at least you need 3 votes to make it happen in LFD, on the LFG side, the group leader can have a player out the same way even if the rest of the group had no issue with the player being kicked.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

@Mifuné-emerald-dream

I feel like parties of 3 people should require a non-party vote to remove a member. This wouldn’t obviously work with parties of 4, but it would stop a lot of griefing that parties of 3 people can inflict on random pugs.

This is already the case. If 3 people queue up together, the 4th person has to agree.

@Panoptes-blackhand

If Rick is the group leader, and I want to kick Bob over there, I can’t do it.

No but the group leader can. Heck, people already complain constantly because just TWO people can kick you in Island expeditions. It takes 3 in a Heroic, or 4 if they queue’d together.

[Panoptes-blackhand (Panoptes)]

@Mifuné-emerald-dream

I feel like parties of 3 people should require a non-party vote to remove a member.

I am not sure of how this would work: if 2 people want to remove 1 from their group, how a 4th player that has no idea what is going on (or the reason) would be able to make a decision? I mean, if you think people in the instance is mindlessly voting ‘yes’ on the VtK pop up, something like this would be no different.

[Ughash-sargeras (Ughash)]

I actually 100% agree with metro. I haven’t done a heroic since I hit 120, I don’t even do heroic islands.

If your worried about the leader kicking you for no reason on the final boss, then just be your own leader I’ve lead 80% of my mythic plus groups when I was doing them. Same with mythic island (which you can just faceroll and almost solo)

And I learned, if you keep a cool head they’ll keep a cool head. I think of 3 years of doing mythic pluses ( I think 3 anyway lol! Forgot when legion came out and added them). I’ve only ran into 1 mean guy and that was in BFA. But everyone kept their cool and let him go on his rampage while we reported him.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Please upload a video of you soloing a mythic island, and even coming CLOSE to winning.

I REALLY want to see this.

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

Right, once again, let me be clear. I’m just saying that if you had to, you could still do these extremely easy dungeons without a tank or a healer. It would obviously be slower and more hectic, depending on the replacement player.

[Ughash-sargeras (Ughash)]

Whenever I feel like logging in again sure

[Randysavage-kiljaeden (Randysavage)]

Sorry about this, I hate when it happens. I try to tell someone why I am initiating a kick in the rare instances that I do. At least they can say “I am new” or something of the like and we can then teach them.

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

The point is that you can’t help but be over geared for heroics.
What’s off putting is how a 374 item level character doesn’t realize that, honestly.
No one is representing anything. We are just giving our opinions, and mine is that this type of content is anti-social and obviously causes a lot of confusion among the playerbase, and should just be removed as both its gear and its methods are not needed in the game we have today.

Even DOING heroic dungeons is a waste of time. You can get far better gear from just about every other content pathway.
Imagine knowing that, and then getting KICKED from one for no reason what so ever?
How can anyone read about that and not think the system needs to be eliminated?

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

@Panoptes-blackhand

You have some odd definition for ‘automatic’: both cases require manually starting the VtK process or removing you from the group, there is no automation here.

Just to clarify, what I meant with what you quoted was that with the situation I described you would automatically have less people kicked from dungeons, because only 1 out of the 5 people could even do it.

If I used the word “automatically” wrong in some way, I’m sorry for that. I just meant that kind of like, instantly you’d solve the problem this way.

I did not mean to suggest that any of the kicking process is automated or whatever else was inferred there.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Do it tonight. Then you can come back and change your tune.

[Caelin-boulderfist (Caelin)]

@Nehrzul-icecrown

My best suggestion is to do what Overwatch does. Put in a report player feature and then a report is generated on how the reported player performed, what they said in chat, if they broke CC, etc. Just a frustration rant while I wait for my dungeon queue timer to run out.

The difference is overwatch actually tracks usable stats and has them to report. I am not sure WoW tracks that kind of stuff as there has never been a reason for them to care who broke what CC or how much you were healing for. There really isn’t a good way to deal with this situation outside of finding a group of friends and running with them.