What, because you don’t get it for free when you hit 2K M+ rating?
We’ve already been through this with you… Tier set from raid only is a problem, but you constantly act like M+ players have meaningfully less access to ilvl than those who’ve done the raid on heroic when that’s blatantly not true to anyone who has the ability to count up to 30.
My char is wearing 2 crafted items and 4 tier pieces from raid. You know what the other 10 items are? 441 M+ drops.
Out of everyone on the core team only one of our tanks doesn’t have 4pc. The alternates have at minimum 2pc (4-5 players) and potentially 4pc at this point.
Between curios, 4x full clears (2h 2n), if you’re consistently raiding, your guild does loot council with a fair spread of loot, and you do 4-6 m+ a week, there’s a very small chance you’re below 435 ilvl on the second week.
It’s a little absurd how quickly gearing has been, if I swap out my rings for garbage stats and use my fragment, I’m already over 440. There’s almost no reason to raid except to kill bosses at this point.
Unpopular opinion: gearing is too easy/fast this patch.
The upper bound of gearing is too high, the lower / middle bounds are too low.
Crests should have capped at like 7 a week but dropped much more frequently. Expecting players to do enough content to cap 150 fragments at 12 per timed key is insane, as is allowing players who can and will do that to be fully geared in week 2.
You can’t mentally justify using a 437 pair of shoulders you didn’t spend any wyrm crests on?
My dude I deliberately spent my wyrm crests everywhere EXCEPT shoulders knowing I would get this token to fill that slot out for free.
We have tier tokens where we’re already doing tertiary rolls, and one where 2 people have nothing.
How did you divide out tier pieces weeks 1 and 2? Did you roll them off / council them as they dropped or did you hold everything until the end of the raid and do it all once you knew what had dropped?
Council at the end of the raid.
Game just gave us more pally/priest/shaman tier than we could possibly need, and not enough DK/warlock/DH tier.
Did all you could then, shame 
Looking at our sheet we have an Rshaman on 3 and a Holy Priest on 2. Rest at 4/4.
25 man roster.
Yes. I’m not going to spend the token until it gives 4-set, because as an M+ player the only way I get tier is through Vault and I’m not about to screw myself up for ilvl and break tier set and also potentially have vault drop in the sane slot.
This would be less of a problem if I could trade my gear back for the Omni token and get another slot but that’s not a thing that exists.
Ah I guess taking into account last season’s tier set I’d agree. Apologies.
For what it’s worth we do agree about the catalyst / lack of availability for tier sets in mythic+. But outside of tier every single item a person could be wearing could be 441 from m+ right now. M+ does not gear any slower outside of lacking tier set availability.
In terms of ilvl gained, M+ is substantially faster until you hit 441.
Yes, maybe it would have been better to say that heroic raid clears alongside mythic+ does not meaningfully increase your ilvl progression outside of acquiring tier.
Which gets to what I’m saying is the core problem with raid gearing: accessibility of items is hot garbage.
It’s also slim pickings in terms of stat distribution options. Gone gone are the days of reforging.
If I had to use the rings and necks provided by the raid I would cry…
1 Like
I always wondered how popular M+ actually is. I think the sentiment surrounding M+ on these forums, that M+ is universally loved, and the best feature implemented into the game ever, is grossly overexaggerated by an army of M+ zealots that inhabit these forums.
I think M+ alienated a ton of players from the game, and the only reason it seems popular, is because of the remaining player base that stayed either tolerates it, or loves that competitive content.
This push by the WoW development team in Legion to make the end game more competitive has really killed the game for many of the casual players that loved WoW.
I think the popularity of Classic proved that the game was just fine without turning dungeons into a competitive cesspool.
The fact that people think that dungeon content needed to be transformed into a spammable never ending scaling speed runs just completely befuddles me at times.
I feel like M+ is completely at odds with traditional MMO dungeon design, and the more the development team leaned into this, the worse the game has gotten.
3 Likes
17-20 drops hero category gear which can all go up to 441 using the crests you get. Heroic Raiders, will never unlock that lvl of gear even with the option to if they don’t M+ of 16 or higher for it. Vault for those tiers also give you gear equal to Mythic raiding of the highest lvl while those who do the raid primarily won’t see as that would take even more time and effort than doing a dungeon
Raiding also only gets vault drops AT level not huge leaps above to auto improve them…
the only thing raiding has over M+ at this time is tier pieces and even then in 4 weeks BEFORE catalyst even drops you could have your pieces.
This, if you put limits on number of items you can get a week, you will kill this game.
If you wanna see a microcosm of this in game already, Go to tuskar community cooking on a Tuesday, then go do it again on a monday.
That will be what happens to every aspect of the game.
Of how ridiculously easy the gearing is. How much easier and better it is. How it rewards inflated ilvl loot for failing to even time the key.
If M+ loot and acquisition rate was adjusted to be on par with its actual difficulty, stopped rewarding inflated ilvl loot for failure to time a key and was tuned to be at least as difficult as clearing the raid on the lower end then it would magically become far less “loved and popular”.
If you put an NPC in the middle of Valdrakken that mailed you mythic raid gear every time you /danced with him it would instantly become the most popular activity in WOW.
1 Like
Only in respect for upgrading your gear, actually getting the gear no, its a lot more viable then past season.
They just need to make quests in the new zone reward drake shards from dailies and then wyrm shard from weekly
Also spoiler, crafting is actually the best way to get gear. In a few weeks time, once you get all the sparks you need, you can just craft 437 gear super easy now.
If you want the best gear NOW then yeah you gotta do end game content, sorry about that.
Do i think Raid should drop more loot? yes.