Still sitting. Because my statement was…
You don’t get brownie points for ignoring your player base for 2 expansions and then screwing up something so simple when you bring it back
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I will admit it takes them time (sometimes) but they do listen to us when it comes from a majority, You literally said they don’t listen to us and then listed something they not only listened to but was from a majority, which was my…point…
so unless you can list something they haven’t listened to us on as a majority my point is unaffected lol compilates about anima and they’ve gotten 2 fixes already underway to boost it.
Also as rough as it is to believe a lot less people pvp compared to PVE and the pvp community in wow has had…(a history we’ll say) about being pretty toxic and wanting things asap and being mad regardless.
At the end of the day they do have to make choices and they’re always gonna put Pve content ahead of pvp.
I disagree completely. I’ve been playing for at least 15 years and I’m having trouble finding the urge to log in, if not for the fact I paid for the 6-month sub (I’m Dutch). I find comfort in the fact that there are many others and hope with a declining playerbase Blizzard might make an actual effort into fixing the game.
Far and away the most alt-unfriendly expansion, with very little meaningful content. At this point, WoW should really be F2P.
The time when they decide something for the game for it to make a return is what pisses people off and makes a lot of people unsub because of how blatantly disconnected it is. Along with the fact that it’s clear that the feedback is pointing towards people wanting the opposite of what Blizzard wants. Also, I’m not going to sit here and be convinced that the PvP community is a bunch of players who run around foaming at the mouth looking for something to be upset at Blizzard. Lemme say this again for you.
2 EXPANSIONS OF BEING IGNORED.
That’s almost 4 years of Blizzard blatantly ignoring the PvP playerbase. And if the argument then is that the PvP community is “a lot less people than PvE” I put forward this tweet back when PvP was successful.
There was no good reason to remove the vendor in Legion. We still had tier, which again was removed for dumb reasons, which would’ve been the best gear for PvE while retaining the WoD system that would’ve made gearing great for PvP. And instead of having to focus on out of touch systems that nobody asked for, they could’ve put that effort into improving the content in-game rather than fixing clear issues that were pointed out in the Alpha.
I understand it wasn’t done as fast as you like but they did listen to you. And you’re not even bringing up any other things they ‘don’t listen’ on.
So you’re argument needs to be “they need to listen to us faster and deliver changes when we want them asap” Not “they don’t listen to us” because they literally do.
As for pvp I didn’t know numbers were that high but I’d like to see % over xpacks b/c from my understanding raiding is alot more steady flow of people and pvp is kinda…by patch and xpack.
Meaning that may be its “all time high” but that’s not it’s average for sure.
People have been saying over and over the reasons why. After so many repeats of the same thing and nobody willing to listen, they just gave up. Poor balance, the horrible designs like covenants, a constant desire to FORCE players to log to avoid staying behind instead of making them WANT to log in first place, a complete disrespect of players in general.
If you wanna be delusional and pretend people haven’t spoke up and are just looking for attention when they say they quit, thats on you. But its very obvious there is plenity of feedback around, has been said too many times and they are just doubling and tripling on it for 9.1 instead of actually listening to the frustrations and developing better.
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I’m not changing my argument because it’s not incorrect. They don’t listen. Because they have yet to deliver what the players are asking for. And funnily enough they’re talking about reimplementing a system “like WoD” instead of just doing what they did in WoD. And yet again before it even comes out, there’s blatant problems with the system.
Again, they don’t get brownie points for “listening” 4 years later. That’s not listening.
As for the % value that’s irrelevant in my eyes. We’re never going to get that. Everyone who did PvP during MoP knew that the population was healthy from beginning to end because of how good it was. And to push things even further Tosan made a video after going to Blizzard headquaters with many other content creators and they had a conversation about the PvP population and put to rest the “1% of the playerbase PvPs” argument.
So no, they don’t listen. They don’t get brownie points 4 years later. And it’s a no sh- Sherlock that they should maybe JUST MAYBE should listen to their players a bit faster.
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“hearing” and “listening” are 2 different things. They heard us but didn’t listen. People asked about the issues with covenants since alpha, the systems on top of systems from shadowlands, the anima stuff, alt-unfriendly,etc.
They didn’t listen and game was released in the messy state it is now. When they decide to implement the changes people asked for over a year, its purely because they are thinking of the bottom line. Its the reason pvp vendors took that long, as after the BFA fiasco they were TRYING to make it look like it will be better even if it wasn’t. It’s polishing a turd.
Hell, its telling of how bad and tone-deaf it is when on prepatch and expac release Ion had 0 issues being a liar to others when stuff i could solo on several 120s with no corruption involved now is unsoloable by those very same toons, now level 50. And leveling to 60 made them weaker until they gear up to mythic castle, which is a unacceptable thing to do really, since no other expac made your toon a wimp on content he was soloing just fine. It goes against the very principle of a MMO to make others weaker on content they were capable of soloing just fine, you cannot defend that:
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It is but I understand why you’d feel your wait time outweighs it, it really does suck to wait that long.
(Also, I’m not going to sit here and be convinced that the PvP community is a bunch of players who run around foaming at the mouth looking for something to be upset at Blizzard)
I don’t mean you specifically but I do stand by the history of the pvp community being very toxic.
They wanted world pvp to matter and choices to opt into it b/c of people killing quest givers and lowbies. When warmode was added they hated it and said that wasn’t what they wanted.
There was post for years asking for a “endless pvp battleground” but ashran sucked right?
people hated the 40man battlegrounds and always blacklisted them but they didn’t like it being made a separate queue either.
People “loved wintergrasp” until we could do it again and over night it when from ‘such a waste to not do anything with!’’ to “god wintergrasp sucks”
People wanted more randomness and fun but got burnt out of brawls within a few months and barly wanted to do them.
The truth is the only way a pvp player is happy is if they are getting wins and killing their opponent. The second a class counters them they’re overpowered. But they are never overpowered to the class/specs they counter/kill easy.
I’ve seen it all over and over again from the pvp player base and if I was a dev I don’t know what I’d do with them either.
Hear hear. If they listened we would have had many of the things we have issues with atm fixed by the end of Alpha. So much stuff is always brought up in testing that probably isn’t a good idea and yet Blizz always keep it and then when it gets to live almost EVERYONE thinks it’s a bad/dumb idea and yet they will still conduit to not change it until its patch X.5.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, this is exactly what they did with valor recently “a system like valor” and it is nothing like what PvE players were hoping for. Now they’re doing the same wit PvP gearing and as you said there are an abundance of issues with it because it doesn’t address the things PvPers have ACTUALLY wanted to have changed - it only tackles the issue of raiders needing to PvP to get gear (which would be solved by giving raiders valor and a valor vendor instead of changing our gearing).
Blizz need to get their crap together. As you said, “listening” months/years later isn’t listening its being so stubborn you don’t want to admit you’re wrong only to do that exact thing when you realize actually that was the best thing to do.
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The WoW community is toxic. In every main avenue of the game there’s a group of players who are negative and demeaning to one another. PvP? Seen it, dealt with it. PvE? Seen it, dealt with it. M+? Seen it, dealt with it. Hell even RP? Seen it, dealt with it. I have yet to see a group in WoW that has any form of player interaction integrated into the gameplay have little to no toxicity. So lets not pretend that it’s just PvPers.
And sure, lets go down that list you’ve put together.
You pointed out World PvP and Warmode? With its addition to the game it has torn down social ties to the game by essentially removing PvP realms all together. Player interaction has essentially become queue’ing up for a BG because with all the different layers that have been applied to the open world that segregate me from the rest of the server that I chose to play on. I have no ties and do not care about fighting someone from Moon Guard because I do not know them, I have no potential rivalry with them and more than likely will never see them again after the encounter.
Warmode essentially killed the realm I played on (ED) because along with the drama we had guild rivalries, RP bases of operations that we would take over and attack at random which encouraged organic WPvP and player interaction.
Now what has become of Warmode? Oh right. People complaining about their phase not housing enough of their faction and being camped while being surrounded by players who don’t care about the situation because they can just open up the Group Finder and CRZ themselves out of every situation.
Lets talk about that “endless PvP battleground” now. You know what people were actually talking about? Something along the lines of Planetside 2. An open area where both factions are clashing against one another. Taking bases and flying their factions and guilds flag with pride after each battle they’ve won.
Taking siege equipment and tearing down walls and charging into enemy fortifications or being on the defense and holding off any enemy advances. And instead we got a MOBA. Where when Blizzard found out that the playerbase wasn’t too thrilled or interested in their failed experiment, they attached 100 extra Conquest in there to force PvPers who didn’t want to fall behind gearwise.
They failed to deliver on a quality experience and instead of making changes to improve the experience forced players to get in there and deal with it.
Lets see, people hated 40 man BGs because it’s essentially just doing PvE instead of actually fighting each other. Your objectives are just butting heads with NPCs and sitting crosseyed waiting for Towers to go down so you can just charge in on the final boss. And it’s funny to me that when I saw players the most excited was when the guards were difficult to kill and encouraged players to fight each other rather than hone into PvE objectives for 3-4 minute win.
The change they could’ve made here is for players who didn’t want to feel like they were getting gibbed if the fight lasted more than 30 minutes is to have a reward system based on your participation. Otherwise players would just queue up, AFK and just soak up the rewards like another failed attempt by Blizzard in previous expansions. COUGH Warfronts! cough
I can keep going. I have tons of PvP experience in WoW and can say with 100% confidence that they do not listen, they do not care and will only continue to put bullets in their own foot. I have never seen PvP participation this low before in all the years I’ve played the game. And this is someone who didn’t unsub all the way through WoD.
You can list it however you want or grain out the fine reasons to make it make sense but the bottom line is while of course every part of any game is gonna have toxic people pvp passes everything else. Hell pvp servers are so known to be FULL of toxic players its a common thing to warn people for if they start playing wow (and that goes back YEARS)
pvper’s are only happy if and when their preferred spec is doing well and they aren’t happy with anything they receive. it always can be better/changed to a unhealthy level to the point it comes off hateful to whatever was added.
I’ve loved pvp for years but you either see the major flaw the pvp community has or you’re part of the issue in it.
And do you know what I do when I have a issue with a company or video game?
I leave, I stop playing and move on to something I enjoy and want to support because that is gonna say more to them then post on their forums will and it gives me peace of mind because its not my issue anymore if I leave.
you can’t not pay and play a game actively for YEARS and keep coming back for content any time they give it to you and simultaneously dislike so much and think they do so much wrong.
because if they were not doing something right you wouldn’t be here playing and pvping at all.
But you are.
The “why don’t you just leave” argument is common here on GD when people aren’t sure how to retort properly to the issues that are going on and have gone on for quite some time. I know the flaws of the PvP community and that does not excuse the decisions Blizzard has made. You can pin it on that all you want but the fact is they haven’t been listening. You think after 4 years is listening, I call that hearing what others have to say and ignoring them until you’ve been pushed into a wall and essentially forced to make that decision. Only to screw it up.
Also it’s laughable that you think I’m playing. My sub runs out soon.
that’s what they all say when asked lol but if you’ve played this long you know what to expect from wow by now and will most likely be back.
i wish you well.
Another typical GD response. If you wanted out of the conversation you could’ve just not posted.
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I’ve been talking to for like hours I don’t mind posting at all.
I just know what people look like when they really quit, they normally go ugh this is boring and unsub ‘for a bit’ and then never come back because they truly lost drive and interest.
but yall? you love to hate this game, it may take a year or longer but players that get ‘mad’ at a game they willingly keep paying for are normally very likely to keep doing it, even more so if they care enough to post over and over about the game they “don’t care for anymore”
Hell I put YEARS into games I’ve quit. I’m not on those games forums b/c well…that’s what really quitting looks like.
if I’m wrong so be it but I’ve seen that over and over.
Saying I love to hate the game is so backwards because that negates the issues brought forward. Which I’ve yet to see proper arguments against to alter my perspective on my viewpoints. Which I’ve done plenty of times on GD.
I don’t care what quitting looks like. I wouldn’t stick around if I didn’t dip so much time and effort into this game. And that includes the community that I’ve run for over a decade which has essentially come to a close in WoW because of the boneheaded decisions by Blizzard. Which there’s still an ample amount of us waiting for future MMOs to come out. Primarily Ashes.
Never in my post did I say I didn’t care. I do care. But again that doesn’t invalidate the points and the “addiction” take isn’t going to pan out either because again, it doesn’t negate the points I’ve made.
For me, I’m done playing WoW. My character is parked in the expansion where he started (Grizzly Hills) and that’s where he’ll remain. I never truly unsubbed until the first patch of BFA, which we started with 3 raid teams and ended with 0 because no one was having fun, stayed out of the xpac and then came back to see SL and it’s just as boring to me. So I’m done.
Blizzard has failed to listen to feedback. And I’m no longer giving up money for a game I perceive to be trash.
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There it is. you would not be playing this game if you didn’t already play it for so long. Meaning you don’t enjoy this game anymore and instead of leaving and finding something else to enjoy you would rather…do this.
this is a video game, It is not your life. you are burned out and no one is gonna want to play 1 game 24/7 their WHOLE life and still like it. wow is never gonna be what it was to you because you have already done it.
everything they add will be already done and not enough because you are already unhappy from the start.
wow would be better without people like you so the ones of us that love the play this game can have their opinions heard over the white noise of a gamer who is screaming they can’t make it feel like the first play through of wrath for them again.
There it is.
“Anyone who has a differing opinion than mine should unsub”
Remember kids. If you ever have any kind of criticism of the game, just unplug from it entirely. Having conversations with the Devs is a waste of time.
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They have failed to listen to yours, Not mine. I am very sorry for that. I do hope you find something else to enjoy but wow just aint it.
I’m gonna get sick of this game one day. When I do I’ll thank it for all my nights raiding and making me what to play it so much I didn’t want anymore. That’s fine with me b/c that’s just how a game that lives as long as wow is gonna go.
In my mind a game that you play for literal YEARS is always gonna be a good game even if the focus on concern doesn’t fit what I want anymore.