uh, what
plenty of people with heavy investment say the same, because it undercuts the entire point of a leadership structure to be making major decisions on the fly in 280 characters
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⊠Or offhandedly attributing events to certain characters which then becomes lore requiring comments and eventual a half hearted explanation âŠ
Lookin at the wrath gate lol
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Remember thatâs titan propaganda. All we know about them is half-truths by the old gods creation and the lies propagated by the titans and the forces of the Light. We donât know what we donât know. We should assume that they may very well be corrupting, but we call them, âevilâ until we know the actual truth.
I stumbled upon this new lore on Youtube. I understand why they had to do this, the story of Warcraft was essentially over with Legion, and unless they were doing to âForth Warsâ another dozen times or have Sargeras escape, or another Old God pop up, they had to give themselves more room to work with.
But that doesnât mean one has to accept it. Eventually everyone has to check out, and having the last 25 or so years of lore be changed to perspective is as good as time as any. Itâs potentially a good way to reboot the franchise, but with how boring Shadowlands was, I think I will pass.
Editted: to put âoverâ in
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Didnât this happen like 3 years ago?
We also donât know the true nature of Odyn thanks to Chronicle being Propaganda from Azeroth & Draenor rather than from an omniscient 3rd Person Narrator. The fact that he uses Light Magic is very suspicious to say the least.
If it turned out he was an infiltrator of the Pantheon of the Light and was the one who struck a bargain with the enemy of all then he would have struck bargains with all who work against the Void whether it be Death, Light or Life.
Odyn would figure out how to create Kyrian from his bargains with Zovaal & Muehâzala, figure out how to create Naaru from Elune giving him Xeâra and gain access to Azeroth by making deals with the Titans while secretly setting up propaganda to claim that the Light was first while making his Books look like they are setting up propaganda to claim the Titans were first.
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Having read the writings, I have some thoughts on Odyn.
Odyn has always been portrayed as someone very authoritative and these writings show that too, but I donât see him as a villain for now.
Order force beings often act like the parents of mortal races, forcing us to do something on the grounds that itâs best for us, or hiding things from us on the grounds that we wouldnât understand. Itâs bad attitudes from our charactersâ point of view, but itâs nothing like destroying the world or wanting to become the center of the universe.
The Order has this characteristic of being controlling, being responsible for organizing things in the universe, and its entities also inherit this peculiarity. They want to bring order to everything, so they will be more authoritarian if necessary.
Wonder if heâll make a move when he hears the dragons are trying to regain their powers, since he was so against them the first time.
Also, Iâd like to thank him for giving The Jailer that stupid eyeâŠ
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Honestly this is the first time Iâve found the Titans interesting.
They worked fine in early WoW as this sort of Ancient Aliens thing happening in the background. But much like the Old Gods they got drastically less interesting the more we learned about them. Only at least the Old Gods were still visibly interesting. The Titans and their creations were all some variation on âsome dudeâ.
So giving their motives a hint of menace is at least something. Because I do think there could be an interesting story in framing the cosmic power struggle as less good VS evil or at least creation VS destruction and more a battle between irreconcilable philosophies. Order for example sounds better than Chaos. But there is such a thing as an unjust order, whereas chaos simply is.
Conceptually itâs a fine idea. I am of course worried about how itâll be implemented though. I do hope they remember to keep the cosmic stuff just part of the story. The trouble with modern WoW storylines is they zero in on one big plot point. In Wrath for example if you were bored by the Scourge they did have the Old God, Titan, ZulâDrak, Nexus War and Faction Conflict stuff going for it as well. So presumably there was something in there youâd find interesting.
Flash forward to Legion though and tough luck if you find them boring because youâre going to be seeing a lot of green fire. SL was even worse than that because it was cosmic nonsense 24/7 and screw you if you found it boring.
The cosmic part works fine as part of the story but never as the whole story. No one aspect of WoW does. It needs to all work in tandem to create this big mural youâre free to explore at your leisure. Maybe we zero in on this bit here or there for a few storylines but no one part should be doing a one man show.
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To some, chaos is better than Order. Either because it is the natural state of things (nature, if left unchecked can become chaotic. As seen on Draenor) or because it could benefit them in the long term. After all, chaos is a ladder 
This was why Blizzard had only one of the leveling zone main antagonists use âGreen Fireâ. That being Skovald. Xavius used the nightmare and was loyal to Nâzoth. Azsuna had the Naga, whom were on team Azshara (and thus Nâzoth by association). Highmountain had Dargrul, who used more elemental powers (mainly earth and fire) due to him wielding the hammer of Khazâgoroth.
Even Surumar didnât go into the green fire that heavily until the insurrection chain. The Legionâs main hub in the area was for a side quest. By 7.2 and 7.3 though, yeah green fire is all we really see. With Eredath being the only place without it. Which I mean is expected. The Broken Shore is the Legions primary base for their invasion during Legion and Argus is the Legions ultimate base of operations.
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A goes to your house to rob you, you dispatch them, fine. B comes to check on you, thinking they are partnered with A, you shoot them too. Now C comes and cries murder, You are the villian. What you choose next is important. D and E either arrest you or kill you.
Chaos is fiction. Only reason humans work is because we are social.
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Chaos only works if your goal is to sow Chaos in others rather than your self.
For that to work you should be someone who treats reality like a Game and not be caught up in the Chaos yourself(Littlefinger got himself caught up in the Chaos and fell off the ladder while Bloodraven possessing Brann kept himself Ordered while using the Ladder of Chaos carefully and won the Game of Thrones).
Balance like it always has been is necessary.
I wonder what the 7th cosmic force is. Could it be Reality itself? Azeroth has always been a vested interest by multiple cosmic forces.
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Ooft, Danuser back at it again with the old switcheroo. The void and the old Gods, as well as the black empire⊠theyâre actually good, guys!
More cosmic vomit as well, yum yum.
That darn Odyn 
patch boss or expac boss confirmed, Helya was one of the good ones all along
I wouldnât go that far. What Odyn wanted suppressed was that the Black Empire made significant advancements. They donât have to be morally good advancements. He wanted to suppress them by claiming nothing âgoodâ came from the Black Empire. It was a terrible and horrible place for nearly everyone. I mean things like GPS were made for warfare before they were able to be used by the public. Think of it like the quote from Harry Potter where the wand shop owner said that he who must not be named did great things. Horrible things, but great.
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Morally grey titans are âfineâ. Titan lore in the past has been grey. Wrath and Cata paints them as coldly logical scientists that have no trouble nuking planets that fail their standards.
But at the same time, we know that they oppose Sargeras and the Old Gods, which weâve seen as evil. Thatâs not propaganda, thatâs our personal experience. Weâve worked with the titans themselves to defeat the legion.
It feels like blizzard is flip flopping on what they want the titans to be. Odyn being a schemer is fine. Lei Shen did awful things for the sake of the titans. But I canât see the likes of Tyr or Freya being as controlling or deceitful.
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What is actually interesting is that with the added lore that the Titans were killed and were hunted down and captured by Sargeras one by one (except for Eonar) is that even if Algalon did send the âdo I nuke the planet?â message to the Titans, that outcome wouldâve happened regardless. As the Titans wouldâve been unable to respond and the default option is to nuke the world if Algalon has to even send the request regardless. Given that Algalon would only do a scan of Azeroth if the Prime Designate was killed. Indicating that there is a high chance of an Old God outbreak. Which at the time was Loken. As Loken changed the logs to help cover up his murder of Sif, at âSifsâ request.
Are you quoting fiction to me? Child, deer eat until they die something kills them them. Wolf, hunter or Car. Point to me on the map where deer reign.
So, let us not forget it was the troll empire that wiped out the black empire. The Titan keepers merely sealed away the old gods and supressed the black empire before going to sleep.
If we find out the Black empire had actual good elements it would be just another nation that the trolls committed genocide against in their attempts to rule the world.
The Titanforged did wipe out the Black Empire. What the Trolls fought during the Troll vs Aqir war was just a shadow. The Black Empire was gone for a long time before that happened anyway. As the Troll Aqir war happened well after Tyr was killed, which was when Yogg-saron was taking control of ulduar via Loken. Since the Câthrax that was leading the Aqir against the Trolls was one of the two that was sent to kill Tyr and only barely survived Tyrs suicide nuke.
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