Far more frustrating. Anduin is just as much a wimp, but we have him as high king, rather than a rightfully marginalized racial leader.
Yes but the humans have always been at the spearpoint of any decisions regarding the Alliance it seems, and while Anduin lacks a resolve to settle things against other sentient beings forcefully I can guarantee that he is astute enough to successfully negotiate and solve more systemic problems the Alliance have in regard to the long term. I can even see him becoming wise later on, but for a kid who was just thrust into the position of his father to manage a round table of equally thick-headed and bloodthirsty peers… I can say he’s doing well in the sense he hasn’t just offed himself yet.
I often find myself in the exact same position when arguing with people about Baine. This is a bit of a generalization, but it’s usually with people who have no real investment or anything beyond a cursory interest in the Horde. Usually Alliance players, the kind who say they haven’t touched their Horde alts all expansion because it doesn’t feel like “their Horde” anymore. Arguing just feels fruitless because the reasons they like Baine, from an Alliance perspective, is mirrored by the reasons that we, from a Horde perspective, hate Baine.
It speaks volumes when even someone like Treng, who cares about stuff like honor and waxes poetic about how Sylvanas has mass damned and mass enslaved the Horde, doesn’t ever want Baine to be Warchief.
I never wanted to hate Baine, I never wanted to hate the son of Cairne, but he makes it so hard not to.
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I wanna see what rolling an alliance Tauren is gonna be like.
No, Saurfang is warchief material. Having Baine as warchief would turn the Horde into human bootlickers.
Most who ask for this certainly play with alliance as main character.
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When Saurfang acts i will beleive it. I want to like Saurfang i loved him in Wrath, but he is currently to passive. If they reveal that he is not knowingly colluding with Anduin, i still wont like how involved the alliance is, but i will be able to stomach his ascension. If he is plotting with Anduin then i got nothing good to say to him, he’d have become another Horde character written for alliance.
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I think the thing that will define Saurfang for me here is … what exactly he is doing. Lets be honest, there isn’t much down in the SoS, and there was little reason for him to hide down there just to double back to the North if his intent was to find “forces” for his cause. Going back to Kalimdor alone would likely only result in suicide for him now that he’s labeled a traitor, and Sylvanas wants his head.
So … while I’m an uncertain as to whether he’ll survive this expansion (tbh, I have this feeling they might Brox him), it (at least for the moment) doesn’t seem like he’s planning a plain old SoO style rebellion. I guess the real question would be, if we assume his path was direct towards his destination … what is in the SoS (or what is something that one has to pass through the SoS) that Saurfang would be headed towards/want? What is down there worth heading towards?
I main Horde and I like Baine as a character. I do get sick of all the hyperbole that surrounds his character. Dude has helped Jaina twice, and is friends with Anduin.
The first time he helped Jaina amounted to nothing but “maybe” some civilians from Theramore being saved (and he owed her after she aided him in reclaiming TB during the Grimtotem rebellion, that was slaughtering entire towns). Garrosh was responsible for the Horde meatgrinder they found at Theramore, due his decision to wait and allow the Alliance to reinforce (and … btw … Baine led from the Front Lines in that battle, despite knowing it would be a meatgrinder).
The second time he’s helped the Alliance, was Derek … and lets be honest, as Sylvanas described that plan it seemed like a desperate move. Granted, pretty sure it was her plan to let Derek go (because Baine “rescuing” Derek would take suspicion of her sleeper agent), but the fact of the matter remains that if that isn’t her plan, the plan was stupid … so Baine releasing him serves only to be a potential olive branch to the Alliance towards diplomacy should we keep getting our butts kicked in this war.
Baine … is fine. He’s a representative people that have a complex history with both the Horde and Alliance (they’ve been hurt and helped by both). They have little reason to have too much animosity towards the Alliance, outside of their affiliations with the Horde. They also have considered leaving the Horde outright, and could if they chose to due to not believing their oath to Thrall has transferred to the following Warchiefs. The only reason they are even a part of the Horde at all (outside of game mechanics) is Baine … so that is a thing to consider.
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I felt pretty neutral about Baine until this expansion started. Now I feel like they’re pushing him at me, and I don’t like that.
Of course, some of that is because Chris Metzen was unavailable to voice Thrall. Which leads me to wonder whether Thrall was originally supposed to be involved in the faction war stuff, or just the quests relating to Vol’jin. Was it supposed to be Thrall who freed Derek, for example??
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If we’re talking about the writers pushing and forcing, I’d argue that suddenly stuffing Thrall in there RKO OUTTA NOWHERE would be even worse than some people’s perspectives on Baine.
The whole BfA narrative is a mess, there are few (on this part of the forums anyway) that like the way things are going. What a weird time and place to be in!
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I think i might just have to switch to frost dk, you totally roasted them.
Specially this
I cant even count the amount of pósters ive seen that bemoaned the burning of teld but their only apparent solution was… to heroically sack another alliance zone/city???
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I’d rather have thrall come from nowhere than having warchief baine at the end.
To be fair, Alliance gets to feel totally justified in slaughtering Horde filth without a second thought, both in PVP and PVE. Is that okay for them, and if so, why?
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We don’t though because Anduin.
Also because if you attack people when they are SAD, that makes you literally worse than literal Hitler…according to Jaina.
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I don’t mind if either of them are colluding with the alliance at this point. I will accept help from the blue team in dealing with Sylvanas. The world comes first. Not this dumb war she started. I keep wondering why the blind hate towards two factions working together for a common goal. This war needs to end and Sylvanas needs to make me purples.
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I mostly agree, actually. I joined Thrall’s Horde back in the day, but having him come back now won’t fix anything. It’s too late for that.
And “certainly” some Tauren (and other Horde soldiers) dying because he let the enemy commander know they were coming. You left that part out. Baine considered his duty to an Alliance leader more important than the lives of his own people.
And that is Baine in a nutshell. He is weak and subservient. It is why most Horde players will NEVER accept him as a leader.
I’ve been very vocal about my unhappiness at being forced to be the stooge for a super villain. But I’ll even take that over being forced to be a stooge for a weak toady like Baine.
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Yeah … Jaina was totally not aware of Northwatch getting steamrolled? Somehow she would never have assumed that Garrosh amassing troops on her northern Border would constitute an incursion into Theramore? And Baine was absolutely right, that if the Horde had pressed the advantage immediately they would have waltzed through Jaina’s town (regardless of his letter or not. That was the point of it, it was him telling her current position was hopeless and to get her people out).
It was Garrosh’s decision to wait, he decided to stall out. He knew what the results where if he did so (the Alliance would reinforce Theramore and fill it with prominent Alliance leadership). The entire point was to use the Mana Bomb at a time when Theramore was filled the brim with High Ranking Alliance members. You claim Baine’s letter “warned” the Alliance that they were coming, while simultaneously ignore the fact that they already knew that AND that Garrosh’s ENTIRE PLAN hinged on that fact.
OH MY GOD! How dare Baine warn them of something they already knew about! Everyone must be so surprised that the Horde was making a move on Theramore, good thing Garrosh had that amazing backup plan built entirely around the Alliance knowing that critical (and “secret”) information! Garrosh is responsible for the Horde deaths at Theramore. HE decided to wait and let it become a meat-grinder. HE decided to use the Horde ground forces to distract the Alliance for the Bomb to be dropped. But, like with Sylvie, I forgot … as long as a Horde leader butchers their own troops to slaughter Alliance its fine; because our entire Faction identity seems to only be opposing the Alliance. So many Horde seem only concerned about what we ARE NOT, they could give a crap about what we ARE.
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You know what would be awesome actually for the character development of Baine? If he joins the Alliance and brings some Horde defectors with him, and then reckons with his cowardice by killing it in the Lightforging process. I would be very okay with that.
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